ACLU Campus Free Speech Event shut down by protesters

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Nov 11, 2017 1:48 AM
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Esoteric AllusionEight teachers in Catalonia are reportedly under investigation for "hate speech" for criticizing police violence during the independence referendum.

Is this those enlightened European hate speech laws Zuben keeps telling us about?

Pretty terrible example. Spain is facing down the very real possibility of a civil war and there have been a host of terrible abuses of state power in relation to this crisis which makes this incident pale in comparison; all of which speaks to the idea that when the law is being perverted in the way it is here it's because of bigger abuses of power and failures of the state. Also, this is gaining national attention in Spain specifically because it is widely viewed as a warped use of the law and because it will almost certainly fail to lead to a conviction.?

Lastly, let's be clear, despite being a dictatorship up until the 1970's, and despite the current crisis, Spain is a more progressive and enlightened country than America: The Garbage Nation.
Nov 11, 2017 2:07 PM
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Zuben
Esoteric AllusionEight teachers in Catalonia are reportedly under investigation for "hate speech" for criticizing police violence during the independence referendum.

Is this those enlightened European hate speech laws Zuben keeps telling us about?

Pretty terrible example. Spain is facing down the very real possibility of a civil war and there have been a host of terrible abuses of state power in relation to this crisis which makes this incident pale in comparison; all of which speaks to the idea that when the law is being perverted in the way it is here it's because of bigger abuses of power and failures of the state. Also, this is gaining national attention in Spain specifically because it is widely viewed as a warped use of the law and because it will almost certainly fail to lead to a conviction.?

Lastly, let's be clear, despite being a dictatorship up until the 1970's, and despite the current crisis, Spain is a more progressive and enlightened country than America: The Garbage Nation.
First, being placed in serious legal jeopardy, even if you eventually win out, is a serious harm. That, all by itself, can have a chilling effect on speech. There doesn't need to be convictions.

With that out of the way, a criticism of hate crime laws that keeps being brought up to you is that they are vulnerable to being used to shut down disagreeable speech when illiberal actors win control of the government.

It just so happens that Spain has a great case in point. Your reply to this is that it doesn't count because Spain is engaging in a lot of abuse of power lately and the law is being perverted to due to a general failure of state.

You are remarkably thick-headed in not understanding how laws constrain (but do not necessarily prevent) abuses of power. Have you considered the possibility that if there wasn't hate crime legislation on the books, this particular path to speech suppression wouldn't have been greased? The argument that you are replying to is that constraining the kind of laws states may pass is a guardrail for when illiberal actors control the government. It's harder to abuse power you don't have.
Nov 11, 2017 2:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 11002
Zuben
Esoteric AllusionEight teachers in Catalonia are reportedly under investigation for "hate speech" for criticizing police violence during the independence referendum.

Is this those enlightened European hate speech laws Zuben keeps telling us about?

Pretty terrible example. Spain is facing down the very real possibility of a civil war and there have been a host of terrible abuses of state power in relation to this crisis which makes this incident pale in comparison; all of which speaks to the idea that when the law is being perverted in the way it is here it's because of bigger abuses of power and failures of the state. Also, this is gaining national attention in Spain specifically because it is widely viewed as a warped use of the law and because it will almost certainly fail to lead to a conviction.?

Lastly, let's be clear, despite being a dictatorship up until the 1970's, and despite the current crisis, Spain is a more progressive and enlightened country than America: The Garbage Nation.

You're too dense to appreciate it, but this underscores the point EA and others have been making in this thread about the importance of free speech protections. "Free speech" in Europe falls apart when the government and/or culture comes under duress.

Despite rampant bigotry, the Republican control of the government, and Trump's authoritarian impulses, activists like Linda Sarsour can still call for "jihad" against Trump and not get thrown in prison for it. America's culture may very well be garbage right now, but its constitutional protection of free speech is holding up to a degree that simply wouldn't happen in other countries.
Nov 11, 2017 2:27 PM
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Incidentally, EA, the Linda Sarsour example is a great one to bring up when you argue with a leftist that wants to weaken free-speech protections.
Nov 11, 2017 2:28 PM
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