Donner Discusses and Reviews Every Single Star Trek Episode and Movie: The Returnining

Joined: Aug 2014
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Here's the thing, Robin. They already have Dilithium. Where they're at right now they probably can only do warp five ( for comparison, TNG has warp 9). That base they were trying to save was responsible for 40% of the Federation's Dilithium harvest. Which begs the question, why leave such an integral part of your war effort, in the middle of a war, undefended?
Oct 12, 2017 12:37 AM
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Evan SolomonHere's the thing, Robin. They already have Dilithium. Where they're at right now they probably can only do warp five ( for comparison, TNG has warp 9). That base they were trying to save was responsible for 40% of the Federation's Dilithium harvest. Which begs the question, why leave such an integral part of your war effort, in the middle of a war, undefended?

Probably the same reason why the Enterprise was always the only Starship in the sector to protect Earth.
Probably the same reason why The Orville wasn't designed to detect dark matter that could easily destroy it.
Probably the same reason Babylon 5 just happened to be built in orbit of a planet with an ancient machine that could do anything they needed.
Probably the same reason why C3P0 and R2D2 just happened to run into Anakin Skywalker's kid on Tatooine.
Probably the same reason the Doctor can go anywhere in time and space, but mostly hangs around England.
Because contrivances happen and they're necessary to plots.
Oct 12, 2017 3:33 AM
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I'm agreeing with Donner's review particularly because I like the little surprises each week revealing a little more mystery. I don't necessarily like a few of the specifics but its very interesting how they tied the creature and the first episode stuff about biology/physics and turned it into using the creature to navigate using their spore drive. That's pretty cool. Its very Dune-y. Also you feel you are going to know these characters very differently as the show develops. We aren't just upfront about this guy has this superpower or this unique skill like Orville.
Oct 12, 2017 9:11 PM
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Evan SolomonHere's the thing, Robin. They already have Dilithium. Where they're at right now they probably can only do warp five ( for comparison, TNG has warp 9). That base they were trying to save was responsible for 40% of the Federation's Dilithium harvest. Which begs the question, why leave such an integral part of your war effort, in the middle of a war, undefended?

There I go again missing the finer points. I can't answer the question which is fair mostly because it never crossed my mind. I can only rationalize an answer.
If someone likes the show they are inclined to rationalize and if not find flaws in a lot of stuff they might let go. I thought the big takeaway from the episode is it established at least for now the Discovery can now go anywhere in the galaxy at a moment's notice. But there is a toll taken on the creature...and that can be potentially dangerous. But it opens up story telling possibilities which is the purpose of adding magical technology. One thing I don't like is I have to leave the kitchen to go back to the television whenever the Klingons are talking. Mostly what I got out of the Klingons is they want to double down on their cloaking advantage. I don't know if TNG or some other series ever handled it but it seems like this series could make a really good meaningful story about how the Klingons appropriated Romulan technology.
Oct 12, 2017 9:30 PM
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Donner
Evan SolomonHere's the thing, Robin. They already have Dilithium. Where they're at right now they probably can only do warp five ( for comparison, TNG has warp 9). That base they were trying to save was responsible for 40% of the Federation's Dilithium harvest. Which begs the question, why leave such an integral part of your war effort, in the middle of a war, undefended?

Probably the same reason why the Enterprise was always the only Starship in the sector to protect Earth.
Probably the same reason why The Orville wasn't designed to detect dark matter that could easily destroy it.
Probably the same reason Babylon 5 just happened to be built in orbit of a planet with an ancient machine that could do anything they needed.
Probably the same reason why C3P0 and R2D2 just happened to run into Anakin Skywalker's kid on Tatooine.
Probably the same reason the Doctor can go anywhere in time and space, but mostly hangs around England.
Because contrivances happen and they're necessary to plots.

You forgot the one about alien invaders taking over a planet covered mostly in a substance they are fatally allergic to.

But then, the same could be said about a superpower nation waging war against an indigenous army in an environment the natives know and use thoroughly.
Oct 12, 2017 9:42 PM
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I did some re-watching the past couple of years and I couldn't find the old thread.
Oct 13, 2017 8:48 PM
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Posts: 11353
"Choose Your Pain"
Star Trek: Discovery

Captain Lorca is kidnapped by the Klingons because Starfleet sends high-ranking officers in a goddamn shuttle across space during wartime like big stupid idiots which necessitates Discovery to use her fidget spinner spore drive to jump into Klingon Space to save him. However, Burnham?s pet tardigrade and spore drive navigator isn?t taking to its nipple clamps very well leading Burnham on a collision course with Saru, Discovery?s new acting captain. Meanwhile, Lorca makes the acquaintance of a fellow prisoner of the Klingons, Harcourt Fenton Mudd (Harry for short).

I know I get a little pissy when it comes to Star Trek?s toxic fan base and I?ve been trying not to let my anger show toward them, but seriously? with this episode, you can kindly shut the fuck up about the show not being optimistic or celebrating the human condition. You can shut the fuck up about characterization, you can shut the fuck up about the writing, you can shut the fuck up about canon. You can roll up all of your little opinions about The Orville being better into a little ball and cram it right up your stupid bitter ass.

Star Trek: Discovery has earned its place in the Star Trek universe and, whether this is Prime Timeline, Kelvin Timeline, or some third timeline is as irrelevant as fighting the Borg. This is a quality product, it is a damn fine show, and if you are so obsessed with minutiae that you can?t enjoy this series because they?re not using cardboard sets or 3.5 inch floppies, then you need serious help or you just need to fuck off right out of the fanbase. I?m sick of you.

So, yes? this episode was goddamn spectacular. Certainly the best episode of Discovery so far and probably a contender for one of the best episodes of Star Trek as a whole.

(Oh, I can hear the toxic fan base crying out in agony and it?s like music to me).

So, what was great about it?

Harry Mudd for starters. Rather than feeling like a nostalgic bone thrown to the fans, I was rather taken in to how effortlessly Mudd fit into the story and how close he was, character-wise, to his 1966 counterpart. Rainn Wilson was great as the old con-man, building on what Roger C. Carmel did in the old series, he?s crafted a new Mudd both faithful to the classic and bubbling with new possibilities.

On Discovery, the crew is faced with an ethical quandry to which there is no right answer. Continue to use the possibly-sentient tardigrade as an unwilling navigator, thus harming or killing it, or risk the captain to come up with an alternative that might not work? There were amazing character moments from Burnham, Saru, Stamets, and Tilly (who, after reservations, I am becoming more fond of), there were harsh words, dilemmas, and the first ?fucks? ever uttered in Star Trek history which were both unexpected and hilarious. Everyone got at least one great scene, there were countless character payoffs, countless character moments, and everything in this episode just worked. I have no other way of putting it, other than it just worked.

One thing I haven?t seem mentioned anywhere else ? though, it?s only been a couple of hours and maybe I just haven?t noticed it yet ? is the fact that this also appears to be the first time that Star Trek has ever directly dealt with the topic of rape and, not only that, but the sexual assault of a man by a woman and it appears that this sexual assault has left some pretty deep scars in Tyler?s psyche. I really hope that this isn?t just dropped in later episodes.

So, yes, the action at the end was great but the subsequent decision of what to do with the Tardigrade is really what propelled this episode into classic territory. It?s that wonderful optimism and exploration of the human spirit that I like? the ability to look at a bad situation and think, how can we fix this? Not being content with letting the characters get lost in gray ambiguity, but having them take a stand and do what?s right. This may be ?grittier? and more ?realistic? Star Trek, but it is still Star Trek? it feels like Star Trek. Don?t let anyone tell you otherwise.

?Choose Your Pain? is a masterwork. The best episode of Discovery and one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever.
Oct 17, 2017 3:09 AM
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Well sir, you had my curiousity, now you have my attention
Oct 18, 2017 11:39 AM
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Posts: 1841
Donner"Choose Your Pain"
Star Trek: Discovery

Captain Lorca is kidnapped by the Klingons because Starfleet sends high-ranking officers in a goddamn shuttle across space during wartime like big stupid idiots which necessitates Discovery to use her fidget spinner spore drive to jump into Klingon Space to save him. ? However, Burnham?s pet tardigrade and spore drive navigator isn?t taking to its nipple clamps very well leading Burnham on a collision course with Saru, Discovery?s new acting captain. ? Meanwhile, Lorca makes the acquaintance of a fellow prisoner of the Klingons, Harcourt Fenton Mudd (Harry for short).

I know I get a little pissy when it comes to Star Trek?s toxic fan base and I?ve been trying not to let my anger show toward them, but seriously? with this episode, you can kindly shut the fuck up about the show not being optimistic or celebrating the human condition. ? You can shut the fuck up about characterization, you can shut the fuck up about the writing, you can shut the fuck up about canon. ? You can roll up all of your little opinions about The Orville being better into a little ball and cram it right up your stupid bitter ass.

Star Trek: Discovery has earned its place in the Star Trek universe and, whether this is Prime Timeline, Kelvin Timeline, or some third timeline is as irrelevant as fighting the Borg. ?This is a quality product, it is a damn fine show, and if you are so obsessed with minutiae that you can?t enjoy this series because they?re not using cardboard sets or 3.5 inch floppies, then you need serious help or you just need to fuck off right out of the fanbase. ? I?m sick of you.

So, yes? this episode was goddamn spectacular. ?Certainly the best episode of Discovery so far and probably a contender for one of the best episodes of Star Trek as a whole.

(Oh, I can hear the toxic fan base crying out in agony and it?s like music to me).

So, what was great about it?

Harry Mudd for starters. ?Rather than feeling like a nostalgic bone thrown to the fans, I was rather taken in to how effortlessly Mudd fit into the story and how close he was, character-wise, to his 1966 counterpart. ?Rainn Wilson was great as the old con-man, building on what Roger C. Carmel did in the old series, he?s crafted a new Mudd both faithful to the classic and bubbling with new possibilities.

On Discovery, the crew is faced with an ethical quandry to which there is no right answer. ?Continue to use the possibly-sentient tardigrade as an unwilling navigator, thus harming or killing it, or risk the captain to come up with an alternative that might not work? ? There were amazing character moments from Burnham, Saru, Stamets, and Tilly (who, after reservations, I am becoming more fond of), there were harsh words, dilemmas, and the first ?fucks? ever uttered in Star Trek history which were both unexpected and hilarious. ? Everyone got at least one great scene, there were countless character payoffs, countless character moments, and everything in this episode just worked. ? I have no other way of putting it, other than it just worked.

One thing I haven?t seem mentioned anywhere else ? though, it?s only been a couple of hours and maybe I just haven?t noticed it yet ? is the fact that this also appears to be the first time that Star Trek has ever directly dealt with the topic of rape and, not only that, but the sexual assault of a man by a woman and it appears that this sexual assault has left some pretty deep scars in Tyler?s psyche. ? I really hope that this isn?t just dropped in later episodes.

So, yes, the action at the end was great but the subsequent decision of what to do with the Tardigrade is really what propelled this episode into classic territory. ? It?s that wonderful optimism and exploration of the human spirit that I like? the ability to look at a bad situation and think, how can we fix this? ? Not being content with letting the characters get lost in gray ambiguity, but having them take a stand and do what?s right. ? This may be ?grittier? and more ?realistic? Star Trek, but it is still Star Trek? it feels like Star Trek. ? Don?t let anyone tell you otherwise.

?Choose Your Pain? is a masterwork. ? The best episode of Discovery and one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever.

Can't believe I haven't seen the new episode yet but I am excited. This is the man who has seen and reviewed every Star Trek episode and film so that is high praise.
Oct 18, 2017 10:44 PM
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