Joss Whedon may not be as much of a feminist as you may think

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According to his wife, anyway.
Aug 22, 2017 4:26 PM
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Aug 22, 2017 4:28 PM
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I'm not sure I'm seeing much of a correlation between being a lousy husband and how honest his ideology is in regards to feminism. ?
Aug 22, 2017 4:39 PM
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I was never a big Joss Whedon fan anyway, although I do like The Avengers.
Aug 22, 2017 5:08 PM
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crumbsroomI'm not sure I'm seeing much of a correlation between being a lousy husband and how honest his ideology is in regards to feminism. ?


From what I've gathered from my social media circles is that it's his utterly dickish manipulation of a woman he cares about while using his power and influence to get younger actresses to sleep with him all while he's surrounded by an aura of being the "male feminist"

Either way he's been shit for a while so I'm ready to just accept that he's probably a trash human.
Aug 22, 2017 5:13 PM
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Smoke Bomb
crumbsroomI'm not sure I'm seeing much of a correlation between being a lousy husband and how honest his ideology is in regards to feminism. ?


From what I've gathered from my social media circles is that it's his utterly dickish manipulation of a woman he cares about while using his power and influence to get younger actresses to sleep with him all while he's surrounded by an aura of being the "male feminist"

Either way he's been shit for a while so I'm ready to just accept that he's probably a trash human.

Me too. I'm beginning to think that both sides of the political spectrum are starting to realize how much of a scumbag he is.?
Aug 22, 2017 5:25 PM
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I don't really care for any guy who calls himself or is identified as a 'male feminist.' If you have a penis you are going to get called out for your misogyny even if you speak out against it. Joss Whedon is living proof of this.


I don't know. I like homeboy's work and don't really care for his personal relationships.


Aug 22, 2017 5:35 PM
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Smoke Bomb
crumbsroomI'm not sure I'm seeing much of a correlation between being a lousy husband and how honest his ideology is in regards to feminism. ?


From what I've gathered from my social media circles is that it's his utterly dickish manipulation of a woman he cares about while using his power and influence to get younger actresses to sleep with him all while he's surrounded by an aura of being the "male feminist"

Either way he's been shit for a while so I'm ready to just accept that he's probably a trash human.

I've got no issue with the possibility/probability that he's an asshole, nor do I have any issue with possibility/probability that he's a two faced shit and that his self proposed feminism is a ruse. I don't know enough about the story to say. I'm just not much into the notion that if someone acts poorly, or doesn't live up to the ideals of their ideology, that they don't hold those beliefs. In short, feminism is a belief in the equality of women. Ideally, this may mean the way they behave should act in accordance with these beliefs at all/most times, but I'm not about stripping people of their belief systems just for being poor examples of it. Similarly I don't want to call into belief someone's faith to their religion if they don't live up to its standards. You can believe in the teaching of Christ or Buddha or whomever and be a violent, criminal, selfish or generally shitty person. Of course, if Whedon's behaviour is a reflection of his honest feelings towards women (which it very well could be), that's a different story.
Aug 22, 2017 8:19 PM
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crumbsroom

?I'm just not much into the notion that if someone acts poorly, or doesn't live up to the ideals of their ideology, that they don't hold those beliefs.

?Of course, if Whedon's behaviour is a reflection of his honest feelings towards women (which it very well could be), that's a different story.


The question of whether he believes in feminism and personally fails to live up to those ideals or whether he is someone who merely pretends to believe in feminism is something that can't be determined by anything I've read so far (ie one article on another site about this topic).

I'd be more upset if it turned out that he was professionally excluding women (writers, actresses) from the creative process because of their gender. I was pretty disappointed to read the interview with the woman who was a write on The Simpsons who says that Sam Simon was going through a divorce in the early seasons of the show and simply "didn't want women around" in the writers' room.

I do think that it would be pretty crappy if he was using feminism to gaslight his wife in order to cover up an affair/affairs. That's gross, if true.

Right now, my feeling is that he gave me Buffy, the Vampire Slayer. Buffy was a very important character to me when I was in high school. It was a show that meant something to me and other girls my age. Buffy was strong and smart and brave and vulnerable and sometimes made stupid decisions and despite the fantasy trappings of the show, she felt more real to me than almost any other girl/woman on television at a time that the main message I got about myself as a television viewer was that I should be up all night angsting about whether Dawson or Pacey was cuter. Even if Whedon's feminism has just been one big 20+ year charade, it doesn't change how I feel about Buffy, or certain characters from his other shows/movies.
Aug 22, 2017 9:00 PM
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crumbsroomI'm not sure I'm seeing much of a correlation between being a lousy husband and how honest his ideology is in regards to feminism. ?

Agreed.
Aug 22, 2017 9:01 PM
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He could be worse things than being coy about how much he cares for women's rights. Let's take the screenwriter for Alien:Resurrection as an example.
Aug 22, 2017 9:21 PM
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Matt NorcrossI was never a big Joss Whedon fan anyway, although I do like The Avengers.

It's not a good movie. Whedon's greatest achievements will always be Toy Story and Firefly. The latter of which is a genuinely great series that was cribbed and set aside for unknown reasons.
Aug 22, 2017 9:32 PM
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Double Post
Aug 22, 2017 9:32 PM
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crumbsroom
Smoke Bomb
crumbsroomI'm not sure I'm seeing much of a correlation between being a lousy husband and how honest his ideology is in regards to feminism. ?


From what I've gathered from my social media circles is that it's his utterly dickish manipulation of a woman he cares about while using his power and influence to get younger actresses to sleep with him all while he's surrounded by an aura of being the "male feminist"

Either way he's been shit for a while so I'm ready to just accept that he's probably a trash human.

I've got no issue with the possibility/probability that he's an asshole, nor do I have any issue with possibility/probability that he's a two faced shit and that his self proposed feminism is a ruse. I don't know enough about the story to say.
Maybe this is where you should stop then

I'm just not much into the notion that if someone acts poorly, or doesn't live up to the ideals of their ideology, that they don't hold those beliefs.
No? No wonder you elected Donald Trump. And I'm aware that you are Canadian so appreciate the sheer bite of this insult

In short, feminism is a belief in the equality of women.
And he wasn't treating his wife like an equal and denying her agency through the marriage. Maybe you should have read up on it before writing a paragraph about it

Ideally, this may mean the way they behave should act in accordance with these beliefs at all/most times, but I'm not about stripping people of their belief systems just for being poor examples of it.
Seriously? NO WONDER YOU HAVE DONALD TRUMP AS A PRESIDENT. Ugh, screw your belief system

Similarly I don't want to call into belief someone's faith to their religion if they don't live up to its standards. You can believe in the teaching of Christ or Buddha or whomever and be a violent, criminal, selfish or generally shitty person. Of course, if Whedon's behaviour is a reflection of his honest feelings towards women (which it very well could be), that's a different story.

Yeah, maybe, just maybe, this threw a wrench in that whole idea. Let's just twiddle our thumbs and wait for him to admit it, right? Fucking white people

Fucking white people
Aug 22, 2017 10:32 PM
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I'd get over Joss Whedon, everyone. His time is up. Justice League is gunning straight for a 30%
Aug 22, 2017 10:36 PM
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Takoma1Right now, my feeling is that he gave me Buffy, the Vampire Slayer.

Just know that he was fucking a good portion of the cast to the expense of his wife who turned him on to going through with the series when you watch it again. I'm happy knowing it was his wife's encouragement and support which led to the creation of Buffy, support which he promptly said "fuck it" to and succumbed to the whims of the "young, aggressive women" in his birthright of a career (third generation screenwriter, y'all)
Aug 22, 2017 10:37 PM
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Aug 22, 2017 10:38 PM
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I can't tell you how many guys I've know who've claimed feminist credentials as a way to get girls.
Aug 22, 2017 10:52 PM
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Takoma1
I'd be more upset if it turned out that he was professionally excluding women (writers, actresses) from the creative process because of their gender.

This would obviously call into serious question the earnesty of his belief system and would be objective proof that he was actively acting against the interests of those he was apparently standing up for. He would unquestionably be a disgusting hypocrite and his claims of being some serious feminist worth listening to would be pretty laughable. He should also be grilled and shamed publically for it as anyone else would in engaging in a baldfaced sexist practice.

But as to what his belief systems actually are, I'm not about judging them in a vaccuum. There could be endless amounts of things he has done that make an effort to counteract this. Jon Stewart found himself in a similar situation to this in that his hiring practices regarding both women and minorities was seriously lacking for a good run of The Daily Show. He also didn't respond well to the accusations initially either. But in time he has come to realize the cultural blindness of his hiring process and has acknowledged he should have done better. Stewart deserved to be called on this. He deserved to have to look at what he had done a little deeper. He deserved to have his shitty first response to be greeted with disappointment and worry that maybe he really didn't walk it like he talked it. But because of this initial mistake on his part, he didn't deserve for people to question if he really believed in civil rights or equality of women.

I'm just think the notion of having instances of people not behaving lock step in accordance with their beliefs is a means to start revoking their decent person citizenship.

As for his gaslighting, I've got no problem calling him a gross person. And if this is a recurring trait in his personality, he's probably more than gross. But it doesn't negate a belief system. It just means he is failing it (and I am only giving him the benefit of the doubt that this is something he honestly believes, maybe he's little more than a non violent Jian Ghomeshi who has adopted a feminist schtick as a cover for a considerably uglier personality beneath...if more stories come out this may be what I ultimately believe, but until then...)?

Aug 22, 2017 11:02 PM
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Puffin NubbinsI can't tell you how many guys I've know who've claimed feminist credentials as a way to get girls.

Right? I mean, I've used Buffy to get laid. No one called it anything but "Buffy: The Vampire Layer" back in the day
These belief systems are just ways for guys to be token about it. Oh, I watched Buffy so I understand feminism, oh I watched The Wire so I understand racial politics in America, oh I watched Donald Trump speak so I understand climate change denial. So then you have a bunch of people running around waving their ill conceived ideologies which all stem from the particularly white and privileged men of the world, and the toxic undercurrent of the full context seeps into the discourse itself. He's a shit dad!
Aug 22, 2017 11:02 PM
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