SHIN GODZILLA IS AWESOME

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That was wild and I totally did not expect it to be of that quality, like, that was TIGHT. What a well realized story. Anno is, in fact, a genius

Godzilla Itself was fucking horrifying. That first shot of it's first evolution was nightmares. That first Atomic Breath sequence, the music... Anno

The whole angle with the bureaucracy was fascinating and I loved how it built up the tension with the government's futile attempts at realizing just how to handle the threat. I can't get over Anno's "war room" music from Eva, and how each time they do the war room music they evolve the track. There was regular war room, break beat war room, jazz war room, metal war room... and it felt like the whole movie operated on that organic logic where the situation, and humanity itself, was evolving and adapting to the situation as Godzilla was.

I think overall they earned their victory, I quite liked the plausibility of the solution... it didn't feel contrived or deus ex machina, they were literally throwing everything they had left at it. It was a liberal solution after the government plays the entire thing conservative. The commentary was dense and current, I felt like this was one of the better primers for what exactly is going on. Anno, yo, what a stud

That final shot is HORRIFYING. Seriously. Get out of my head with that shit, Anno. Ugh. You are the worst I love you. That was magnificent. 9/10
Aug 11, 2017 3:49 AM
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It was funnier than I expected too. I was watching with my friend and we both agreed that it felt, and stay with me here, like a Coen Bros film with just how colourful and pronounced the cast was (and that it had something of a dark sense of humor around it's beaurucratic futility in wake of God, the fatalism felt similar at times). You didn't really need to know who does what or anything, it's all very confident in it's presentation of it's characters. Holy shit can Anno film dialog, dude needs to remake 12 Angry Men
Aug 11, 2017 3:54 AM
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I liked it too. I liked that that Godzilla actually looked horrible, and not just an oversized bathroom toy. Bleeding, cracking, and pissed off. That's a proper monster.
Aug 11, 2017 4:07 AM
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I'm really not a fan of the conservative politics on display in this movie, not the disdain towards beaureaucratic processes meant to protect a democracy. The movie makes fun of scientists at one point. I also don't find the film's narrative "point" fair at all. I feel like an organized government would respond to a real world tragedy better than a completely impossible scenario nobody could have anticipated. Let's also not forget raised in America Anne Patterson who has an inexplicable Japanese accent and plans to be President by the age of 40. What a bad character.

This is a very angry, borderline jingoistic film. That angle is interesting at least, but Godzilla films are traditionally about the futility of man in the face of the incomprehensible. The heroes are newsmen and scientists and monsters themselves. Humanity should not defeat Godzilla, at least without severe sacrifice/compromise. Japan defeating him through their simple ingenuity is most definitely a political statement about Japan's future in global politics, and I don't like that crap in my Godzilla movies where humbleness is a core theme.

I don't like how adult Godzilla looks. I was fine with it in general until his lower jaw split open. Completely unessecary. I don't like Anno's design sensibilities. The amount of liberties he took with Godzilla's design and abilities is equivalent in my mind to Godzilla 1998 but on the opposite end of the spectrum. It looks cool in a vaccuum or as some kind of bizarro-esque villain, but as a core Godzilla design it lacks any nobility or regalness which is a design staple. His small arms look dumb.

More on the point of Godzilla's depiction. He is no longer a character in my eyes. He's just a walking object. He expresses nothing, barely moves, and has no personality. That sucks and makes me sad as a Godzilla fan. I also am not a fan of his revamped origin. They even imply that Goro Maki created Godzilla/became/merged with him, which is dumb.

Some cool scenes and a neat style of editing you don't see often save the movie. But it's too edgy, blunt, and heavy handed. It's all very surface level stuff. It's trying too hard to be cool and too hard to make a bad point, and fundamentally misunderstands the core themes of Godzilla. I feel like Honda would not be happy with this movie. There is no longer any tragic aspect to Godzilla as a character, or any character of any kind. The film should have been titled Shin-Nippon.
Aug 11, 2017 4:37 AM
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I'm a traditionalist, granted. But it's just shocking to me just how much more Godzilla 2014 grasped the spirit of the character than it's native follow-up.
Aug 11, 2017 4:40 AM
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Evan SolomonI'm a traditionalist, granted. But it's just shocking to me just how much more Godzilla 2014 grasped the spirit of the character than it's native follow-up.

What does "shin" mean in Japanese?

core
faith
fidelity
genuineness
heart
marrow
new
reality
sincerity
thin
trust
truth
wick

Art is in a bit of a trap when it comes to paying tribute to the past. I'm happy with my punk interpretation of Godzilla

I feel like Anno is on your side regarding the politics, and that he displayed far more humbleness and human fortitude than you are giving credit. It wasn't pronounced and I sensed no jingoism, especially in regards to the US relations. That all felt real... maybe not the one chick's bid to be president, dunno exactly what Anno was going for there. It didn't feel sharp more than honest, like, that's kinda how it is over there. Sincerity is key, ultimately I do not think that Anno picks a side in this, most telling by "who are you talking to!?" when the protagonist declares the flaws of democracy - it's beyond politics at that point, politics slowed down the process

This is not a Godzilla movie more than it's a Hideaki Anno movie. The styles and themes on display date back to his earliest work and it feels like a passion project, and a damn good one at that. I would like for you to point at one other Godzilla movie which is done as well as this, and I will contest that I also think that Edwards Godzilla is a 9/10 and politically grey in a similar fashion. The big difference is the mutas, they went Godzilla vs the Monsters and not Gojira which Anno was going for, that's just a different tone altogether and I'm sure you would admit that?
Aug 11, 2017 5:59 AM
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Evan Solomon?There is no longer any tragic aspect to Godzilla as a character, or any character of any kind

Totally disagree, jeeze, you are colder than Anno
Aug 11, 2017 6:00 AM
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It should be noted that I hate Hideaki Anno's work in general and think he's a hack. I think the movie is competent as it is due to the other director on the movie, Shinji Higuchi.

It had been established that "Shin" is supposed to mean "new" in this context. It's why Toho decided against selling the movie as Godzilla: Resurgence.

This is not a "Punk" interpretation of Godzilla. Godzilla vs. Hedorah is closer to that. The abhorrent Godzilla: Final Wars os closer to that. I don't know where you feel the "pinkness" coming from. The government misfits banding together to come up with a plan? There's hardly anything "punk" there outside of them not fitting in.

There are definitely angsty conservatives undertones to this movie, even overtones. I do not understand how you missed it. You have bitterness over Japan's heeling to the US. You have young men angry at a government for not responding to an impossible situation due to democratic safeguards. You have those same young men defeating Godzilla at the end on their own. It's pretty cut and dry. The movie is anti-politics, whereas the original series of movies held the upmost optimism over the UN. Politics of this nature have no place in a Godzilla movie as far as I can see as it distracts from the themes of Godzilla himself. Godzilla changes from a metaphor for WMDs and a personification of nature itself into a metaphor over how the Japanese government as it is is too incompetent to get anything done. I have a problem with that.

There's plenty of Japanese fortitude on display to be sure, but we never see it from the Japanese PEOPLE. You see some shots of children in disaster centers, but nothing showing off the community and strength of the civilians of Japan. All you see is the people in government, and that is kind of creepy and decidedly not humble. The main protagonist is anything but.

I would also point out this was not a "passion" project for Anno. He had to be convinced to do it. This strikes me as a oter scenario where a director comes to the franchise and alters it to match his sensibilities for him to feel invested in working on it, much like Godzilla 1998 or Godzilla: Final Wars.

You also picked the wrong challenge to give me as it is incredibly easy for me to point to Godzilla films done better than this one. At least give me limitations. There is the original film of course, which is perfect at what it does. Mothra vs. Godzilla, Godzilla vs. Biollante, GMK, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, I could go on. But there is one film that is easily comparable to Shin, above all others. The Return of Godzilla, which was just released on Bluray in the Fall for the first time ever. In the 1984 film Godzilla appears out of the ocean to attack Japan in the modern age. The rest of the film is about the Prime Minister of Japan weighing the decision on whether or not to let the US or Russia drop a nuke on Godzilla amongst Tokyo. Meanwhile a group of scientists come up with an underdog alternative plan to deal with Godzilla. They also try injecting Godzilla with a shit-ton of bloods coagulant. The movie is eerily similar to Shin and ROG handles every theme with more grace and subtlety than Shin-Godzilla does. It also has much better music and is more graphic in terms of seeing people directly killed by Godzilla. It is extremely humble and GETS what Godzilla is almost better than any other Godzilla film. It may not have the flashy effects of Shin-Godzilla or the stupid body horror edge, but it is a superior film on many levels. If I didn't know any better I would say that Shin is ripping that movie off wholesale. So, that.
Aug 11, 2017 6:35 AM
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I mean, I'm not going to win this battle, nor will I try, but you sure didn't have this harsh of a sentiment a while back but I appreciate that thoughts evolve and such to fit the current climates. It's very Shin Godzilla of you, what a movie
Aug 11, 2017 7:16 AM
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Evan SolomonThis is not a "Punk" interpretation of Godzilla. Godzilla vs. Hedorah is closer to that. The abhorrent Godzilla: Final Wars os closer to that. I don't know where you feel the "pinkness" coming from. The government misfits banding together to come up with a plan? There's hardly anything "punk" there outside of them not fitting in.

There are definitely angsty conservatives undertones to this movie, even overtones. I do not understand how you missed it. You have bitterness over Japan's heeling to the US. You have young men angry at a government for not responding to an impossible situation due to democratic safeguards. You have those same young men defeating Godzilla at the end on their own. It's pretty cut and dry. The movie is anti-politics, whereas the original series of movies held the upmost optimism over the UN. Politics of this nature have no place in a Godzilla movie as far as I can see as it distracts from the themes of Godzilla himself. Godzilla changes from a metaphor for WMDs and a personification of nature itself into a metaphor over how the Japanese government as it is is too incompetent to get anything done. I have a problem with that.

That sounds punk as fuck

Also no at that last bit, jeeze louise that nuclear nature subtext was all over the place, on the surface ever which apparently this entire movie is. This was straight up Here Comes the Flood stuff
Aug 11, 2017 7:19 AM
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Evan SolomonYou also picked the wrong challenge to give me as it is incredibly easy for me to point to Godzilla films done better than this one. At least give me limitations. There is the original film of course, which is perfect at what it does. Mothra vs. Godzilla, Godzilla vs. Biollante, GMK, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, I could go on. But there is one film that is easily comparable to Shin, above all others. The Return of Godzilla, which was just released on Bluray in the Fall for the first time ever. In the 1984 film Godzilla appears out of the ocean to attack Japan in the modern age. The rest of the film is about the Prime Minister of Japan weighing the decision on whether or not to let the US or Russia drop a nuke on Godzilla amongst Tokyo. Meanwhile a group of scientists come up with an underdog alternative plan to deal with Godzilla. They also try injecting Godzilla with a shit-ton of bloods coagulant. The movie is eerily similar to Shin and ROG handles every theme with more grace and subtlety than Shin-Godzilla does. It also has much better music and is more graphic in terms of seeing people directly killed by Godzilla. It is extremely humble and GETS what Godzilla is almost better than any other Godzilla film. It may not have the flashy effects of Shin-Godzilla or the stupid body horror edge, but it is a superior film on many levels. If I didn't know any better I would say that Shin is ripping that movie off wholesale. So, that.

Limitations? Okay, don't think that Anno is a hack because he's clearly not. Quit arguing with emotions, I'm cold as fuck. The original film is the only one this compares to, it's not trying to be your fantasy of your fandom. Quit being a Godfascist.
Aug 11, 2017 7:22 AM
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Evan just feels really strongly about his take on the film. I've been on the Shin Godzilla is evil conservativism whirly-gig before. It just seemed like a Godzilla to me.
Aug 11, 2017 7:26 AM
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NotReallyYARNAutism GuyEvan just feels really strongly about his take on the film. I've been on the Shin Godzilla is evil conservativism whirly-gig before. It just seemed like a Godzilla to me.

Oh I know, I'm just taking the piss because he gets how many Godzilla movies and I get an Anno movie and it's bla bla bla Anno doesn't understand Godzilla when, to me, it was a fine blend of what I personally know of Godzilla, as limited as that may be, and Anno's work, which is far more extensive. My fandom deserves a break here! I just re-watched Evangelion for, like, the 9th time recently! Ultimately, it got me interested in Japanese Godzilla... like, the meta, the eras, those specific political subtexts which have otherwise been lost to me in my youth. It feels like a good primer to go back and watch some Godzillas. That's all Thor wants me to do! Anno is helping him win! I can use this formula, I feel like Anno's respect for the franchise will carry me through that (he stopped production of the final Evangelion rebirth in order to do this project so no, he was not coaxed into it. This is something he wanted to do)
Aug 11, 2017 7:35 AM
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Sorcerer Supreme Nameless
Evan SolomonThis is not a "Punk" interpretation of Godzilla. Godzilla vs. Hedorah is closer to that. The abhorrent Godzilla: Final Wars os closer to that. I don't know where you feel the "pinkness" coming from. The government misfits banding together to come up with a plan? There's hardly anything "punk" there outside of them not fitting in.

There are definitely angsty conservatives undertones to this movie, even overtones. I do not understand how you missed it. You have bitterness over Japan's heeling to the US. You have young men angry at a government for not responding to an impossible situation due to democratic safeguards. You have those same young men defeating Godzilla at the end on their own. It's pretty cut and dry. The movie is anti-politics, whereas the original series of movies held the upmost optimism over the UN. Politics of this nature have no place in a Godzilla movie as far as I can see as it distracts from the themes of Godzilla himself. Godzilla changes from a metaphor for WMDs and a personification of nature itself into a metaphor over how the Japanese government as it is is too incompetent to get anything done. I have a problem with that.

That sounds punk as fuck

Also no at that last bit, jeeze louise that nuclear nature subtext was all over the place, on the surface ever which apparently this entire movie is. This was straight up Here Comes the Flood stuff


"All over the place". Hm. They talk about radiation sure, but you don't see the consequences of it. Godzilla's origin is boiled down to feeding off improbable nuclear waste, rather than being angered and burned by atomic weapons testing and it had nothing to do with the story of the movie, it isn't even nessecary information. That's the extent of nuclear subtext as far as Godzilla is concerned. You have the stuff where the UN wants to nuke him, but that is an entirely different issue. It's interesting to me how in this movie, the acting Prime Minister agrees under pressure to allow the countdown to happen, but in ROG, the PM refuses to allow Nuclear activity regardless of anything. Hmm.

Just flatly saying there is no other Godzilla film done as well as this one is a laughable sentiment to me. I also find it difficult to believe you are informed enough to make such a conjecture. You're looking at a catalogue of thirty movies. I would raise an eyebrow at anyone who said any Godzilla movie was not in the same league as the others because so many do different things better than others. How reductive.

And good for Anno delaying Rebirth (he did need to be coerced, btw). I feel like a man desperately trying to relive success by re-making his most famous work(which he will never be happy with) should pursue different projects. I have a very low opinion of Hideaki Anno, of course. Were I involved in modern politics I would call him a one trick pony. And that one trick isn't even that good in the first place. End of Evangelion is among the most furious I've ever been watching a movie.
Aug 11, 2017 10:35 AM
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Hipster Godzilla fan

kid just can't sit there and enjoy something.




rodan > godzilla anyway.
Aug 11, 2017 12:47 PM
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Return of Godzilla can be painfully boring, though. Aside from the original, Shin is one of the only Godzilla movies that I can think of which feels genuinely frightening at times. I'm clearly more into Godzilla on a surface level than Evan, as one of my few gripes with Shin Godzilla is the multiple beams coming from his back. The tail blast should have sufficed. I definitely noticed jingoism at play, and the Japanese-American diplomat was a blatant weak spot, but I overall loved Shin Godzilla and would put it alongside Godzilla vs. Destoroyah and Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster as a personal favorite.

One of my favorite Godzilla tropes is the inevitable military scene in which they realize how useless they are against Godzilla. Shin Godzilla's scene in question is top notch. I'd love to rant more but I'm at work. I'm happy that it's getting people's attention and actually stirring up some Godzilla discussion.

Hey Evan, what did you think of the dub? I prefer subtitles in general, but the bureaucratic dialogue in Shin Godzilla hits you so fast that it's nice to enjoy the visuals without trying to keep up.
Aug 11, 2017 12:52 PM
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Evan SolomonJust flatly saying there is no other Godzilla film done as well as this one is a laughable sentiment to me.

Where did I say this?
Aug 11, 2017 5:39 PM
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Evan SolomonAnd good for Anno delaying Rebirth (he did need to be coerced, btw). I feel like a man desperately trying to relive success by re-making his most famous work(which he will never be happy with) should pursue different projects. I have a very low opinion of Hideaki Anno, of course. Were I involved in modern politics I would call him a one trick pony. And that one trick isn't even that good in the first place. End of Evangelion is among the most furious I've ever been watching a movie.
What's the point if you don't even have a child's grasp of Eva? Be a Kaji, not a Shinji
Aug 11, 2017 5:40 PM
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Evan SolomonEnd of Evangelion is among the most furious I've ever been watching a movie.

Great. It inspired a reaction out of you. WHAT GOOD ART

You nerve ending you
Aug 11, 2017 5:43 PM
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Evan Solomon"All over the place". Hm. They talk about radiation sure, but you don't see the consequences of it. Godzilla's origin is boiled down to feeding off improbable nuclear waste, rather than being angered and burned by atomic weapons testing and it had nothing to do with the story of the movie, it isn't even nessecary information. That's the extent of nuclear subtext as far as Godzilla is concerned. You have the stuff where the UN wants to nuke him, but that is an entirely different issue. It's interesting to me how in this movie, the acting Prime Minister agrees under pressure to allow the countdown to happen, but in ROG, the PM refuses to allow Nuclear activity regardless of anything. Hmm.

You don't see the consequences of it? They "talk about it"? Come on dude, quit being lazy. Are you... good enough at watching movies to be posturing your fandom to this extent? I think you must suck at watching and understanding movies

It's one thing to have an actual critique, it's another thing to just rattle shit off the top of your head because it fits the current circumstance with little to no regard for the safety of the people around you. This is my thread, Evan. You best start showing some respect or you can go make your own
Aug 11, 2017 5:47 PM
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