Rank Alien series - AGAIN

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10814
Aliens and then Alien.

The other films have no reason to exist.
May 20, 2017 2:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3858
Wow, IMDb reviews coming in are trashing Covenant.

The first page of user reviews are all bad. I just skimmed for the ratings and review titles:
"corporate product"
"stupid characters"
"time to retire Scott"

I must say I am surprised. Although the trailers have looked quite uninspired, I really felt like Ridley would be achieving some redemption with this one.? Surely it had to be tighter than Prometheus, no?

And on RT the user average score is 3.5/5 That's really bad for RT users. 66% fresh, it's close to rotten. This is super disappointing, but I'm still definitely gonna see it.
May 20, 2017 2:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3858
Also, can we have this serve as the spoiler-free Alien:Covenant thread? For those who have seen it, please rank it.
May 20, 2017 2:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10706
jasper de large
I totally see what you guys are saying, but it's really a no-win situation. If they don't have the rapport and quips and the "cheesy" camaraderie, then they are flat, and if they are flat, we don't remember them at all, and critics ding the movie for its characters having "no personality."

I have no issue whatsoever with the use of broad stereotypes in Aliens, but the notion that if a director doesn't go this route that character won't be fleshed out beyond flatness and that the audience won't remember them is nonsense. The approach Cameron uses in Aliens works for the type of movie it is, so this isn't a knock against it, but let's not act like there aren't many different ways to make characters resonate.

That being said, Aliens is pretty good (though I'm finding it to have diminishing returns through the years), but Alien is pretty much an unqualified masterpiece. Haven't seen any of the other ones. I'm definitely curious in seeing all of them (even Prometheus) so I'm not sure why that hasn't happened yet.

May 20, 2017 2:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10814
jasper de large
"time to retire Scott"

Maybe. I just think Scott needs good ideas (someone else's) to work with.
May 20, 2017 3:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3858
^ No no no. This won't do. Calling for Scott to retire is just typical entitled internet non-contributing whining. He JUST had a monster critical and commercial success in 2015 with The Martian. And I actually found Exodus more interesting than that. I feel like even at his worst, he's still worth checking out. Robin Hood was also really interesting if falling short of being a success.

I actually suspect if he has a fatal fault, it is that he overthinks the subjects he tackles and sometimes overlooks delivering the mundane meat and potatoes that earned him Best Picture glory with Gladiator. Kingdom of Heaven was much more complex than Gladiator, and it suffered for it. I think he made a conscious decision to tone down the gore-porn for KoH, shortly after his macabre trilogy of Hannibal, Gladiator, and Black Hawk Down.

After Black Hawk Down he seemed much more interested in the shades of gray rather than righteous ruby arterial spray. But I maintain that I cannot say I've seen a "bad" film by him. I liked American Gangster, Body of Lies, Robin Hood, Prometheus, Exodus and The Martian. None of which particularly blew me away, but all were far from being bad, and I'd say more were quite well made.

Think about what a gross kneejerk it is to say he should call it quits. Had he listened to these whiners after Prometheus failed to capture lightning in a bottle like the original Alien again, and just retired at that point, then we'd not have gotten The Martian, at least not in the way he delivered it. Though someone would probably have picked it up like Ron Howard or somebody else, odds are it would have been worse, just based on the average director out there. Scott remains a distinct cut above.

Also we have to remember that Scott is the type of director who is always directing, whether he has the golden script or not. I think this is quite different from directors like Cameron or Kubrick who take many many years between films. Scott is working on one just about every 1-2 years and just look at his production credits; he's immersed in his trade 24/7.
May 20, 2017 6:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3858
To clarify, I don't mean I object to your entire suggestion, just the "maybe" part. But I do agree he could benefit from some better scripts. Who couldn't? Even the directors most well known for writing their own scripts, like QT and Coens, have proven they need some help sometimes.
May 20, 2017 6:26 AM
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MKS
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 46273
It's too soon for me to feel certain in my rankings but I think it would look like this:

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Covenant
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
AvP
AvP Require

AC may drop below AR on rewatches.
May 20, 2017 7:46 PM
0 0
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2846
MKSIt's too soon for me to feel certain in my rankings but I think it would look like this:

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Covenant
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
AvP
AvP Require

AC may drop below AR on rewatches.

So basically according to you guys nothing will top the original but you'll still get all excited and bent out of shape for each new one. It's like watching mice walk into a cat's den.
May 20, 2017 9:46 PM
0 0
MKS
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 46273
Black Philip
MKSIt's too soon for me to feel certain in my rankings but I think it would look like this:

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Covenant
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
AvP
AvP Require

AC may drop below AR on rewatches.

So basically according to you guys nothing will top the original but you'll still get all excited and bent out of shape for each new one. It's like watching mice walk into a cat's den.

There are plenty of sequels that I like to love that do not top their original film. And there's always the minute chance that it will be topped. But sure, interject a whole lotta nonsense to keep spreading that incessant judgmental negativity. It's the best way to make people like you!
May 20, 2017 9:52 PM
0 0
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2846
MKS
Black Philip
MKSIt's too soon for me to feel certain in my rankings but I think it would look like this:

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Covenant
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
AvP
AvP Require

AC may drop below AR on rewatches.

So basically according to you guys nothing will top the original but you'll still get all excited and bent out of shape for each new one. It's like watching mice walk into a cat's den.

There are plenty of sequels that I like to love that do not top their original film. And there's always the minute chance that it will be topped. But sure, interject a whole lotta nonsense to keep spreading that incessant judgmental negativity. It's the best way to make people like you!

I don't judge you guys. I just laugh. It's like my friend who wastes all his money on cel phones. I usually laugh at him when he goes for the 100th time to borrow money from his mom to pay rent.
May 20, 2017 10:10 PM
0 0
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 9470
So are we claiming the Assembly Cut as the preferred version of Alien 3
May 20, 2017 11:00 PM
0 0
MKS
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 46273
Black Philip
MKS
Black Philip
MKSIt's too soon for me to feel certain in my rankings but I think it would look like this:

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Covenant
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
AvP
AvP Require

AC may drop below AR on rewatches.

So basically according to you guys nothing will top the original but you'll still get all excited and bent out of shape for each new one. It's like watching mice walk into a cat's den.

There are plenty of sequels that I like to love that do not top their original film. And there's always the minute chance that it will be topped. But sure, interject a whole lotta nonsense to keep spreading that incessant judgmental negativity. It's the best way to make people like you!

I don't judge you guys. I just laugh. It's like my friend who wastes all his money on cel phones. I usually laugh at him when he goes for the 100th time to borrow money from his mom to pay rent.

Trumpian.
May 20, 2017 11:02 PM
0 0
MKS
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 46273
BobHarrisSo are we claiming the Assembly Cut as the preferred version of Alien 3

I wouldn't go that far. The pacing, unfinished special effects and ox origin for the creature don't sit right with me. It's a great companion piece and an ideal cut combines the two but I'm going to take the theatrical cut of all Alien films.
May 20, 2017 11:04 PM
0 0
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 9470
MKS
BobHarrisSo are we claiming the Assembly Cut as the preferred version of Alien 3

I wouldn't go that far. The pacing, unfinished special effects and ox origin for the creature don't sit right with me. It's a great companion piece and an ideal cut combines the two but I'm going to take the theatrical cut of all Alien films.

I completely agree with the pacing and those Alien SFX, the ox origin didn't bother me, I didn't find it great by any means but didn't find it horrible either.
May 20, 2017 11:08 PM
0 0
MKS
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 46273
BobHarris
MKS
BobHarrisSo are we claiming the Assembly Cut as the preferred version of Alien 3

I wouldn't go that far. The pacing, unfinished special effects and ox origin for the creature don't sit right with me. It's a great companion piece and an ideal cut combines the two but I'm going to take the theatrical cut of all Alien films.

I completely agree with the pacing and those Alien SFX, the ox origin didn't bother me, I didn't find it great by any means but didn't find it horrible either.

It's not horrible it's just inferior to the dog. The dog adds a degree of sadness and sympathy that furthers the perversion of the alien's existence that an ox just doesn't have. Plus, it doesn't behave or have any attributed that one would expect from an ox.
May 20, 2017 11:11 PM
0 0
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3858
Black Philip
MKSIt's too soon for me to feel certain in my rankings but I think it would look like this:

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Covenant
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
AvP
AvP Require

AC may drop below AR on rewatches.

So basically according to you guys nothing will top the original but you'll still get all excited and bent out of shape for each new one. It's like watching mice walk into a cat's den.

Until someone comes along with a better Lovecraftian sci-fi/horror thriller original intellectual property, we will continue to chase the dragon that is Scott's original Alien. It is not unlike cinematic heroin, and we movie goers are the junkies.

If we exclude the AVP stuff, even though everyone agrees the sequels after 1986 have been inferior, we all still feel like it's a better than average franchise. It has established a universe ripe for exploration.

Fox has been very smart in managing this, instead of just squeezing it for 5 sequels in the 80s, they took their time. This franchise may have declined in power, but not popularity, and that is due to the rare example of studios not diluting a franchise with 1 new sequel every year.
May 21, 2017 12:51 AM
0 0
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10814
jasper de large^ No no no. This won't do. Calling for Scott to retire is just typical entitled internet non-contributing whining. He JUST had a monster critical and commercial success in 2015 with The Martian. And I actually found Exodus more interesting than that. I feel like even at his worst, he's still worth checking out. Robin Hood was also really interesting if falling short of being a success.

I actually suspect if he has a fatal fault, it is that he overthinks the subjects he tackles and sometimes overlooks delivering the mundane meat and potatoes that earned him Best Picture glory with Gladiator. Kingdom of Heaven was much more complex than Gladiator, and it suffered for it. I think he made a conscious decision to tone down the gore-porn for KoH, shortly after his macabre trilogy of Hannibal, Gladiator, and Black Hawk Down.

After Black Hawk Down he seemed much more interested in the shades of gray rather than righteous ruby arterial spray. But I maintain that I cannot say I've seen a "bad" film by him. I liked American Gangster, Body of Lies, Robin Hood, Prometheus, Exodus and The Martian. None of which particularly blew me away, but all were far from being bad, and I'd say more were quite well made.

Think about what a gross kneejerk it is to say he should call it quits. Had he listened to these whiners after Prometheus failed to capture lightning in a bottle like the original Alien again, and just retired at that point, then we'd not have gotten The Martian, at least not in the way he delivered it. Though someone would probably have picked it up like Ron Howard or somebody else, odds are it would have been worse, just based on the average director out there. Scott remains a distinct cut above.

Also we have to remember that Scott is the type of director who is always directing, whether he has the golden script or not. I think this is quite different from directors like Cameron or Kubrick who take many many years between films. Scott is working on one just about every 1-2 years and just look at his production credits; he's immersed in his trade 24/7.

Maybe.
May 21, 2017 1:07 AM
0 0
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3858
XD

Rank the new movie bitches!! I realize it can take time to properly process and appreciate, but just go with your instinct at this moment. I know several of you have seen it by now and are discussing it. Rank it here NAOW
May 21, 2017 2:28 AM
0 0
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2376
Black Philip
MKSIt's too soon for me to feel certain in my rankings but I think it would look like this:

Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Covenant
Alien Resurrection
Prometheus
AvP
AvP Require

AC may drop below AR on rewatches.

So basically according to you guys nothing will top the original but you'll still get all excited and bent out of shape for each new one. It's like watching mice walk into a cat's den.

I think that this film has a lot of potential. Sure, Scott can be hit or miss, and most of the Alien sequels have been underwhelming. However, I found The Martian to be a great film. In fact, it's one of his most praised films in recent years. Concerning the amount of popularity that film received, I feel like Scott might have learned a few things from that movie. As a result, this film could be good. It probably won't be better than Alien, but I think it shows potential to be a good film (in fact, it currently sits at a 73% on Rotten Tomatoes). So for those reasons, I'm interested in seeing this film. All that matters to me is that I enjoy it (which might happen). I don't care if it turns out to be better than Alien.
May 21, 2017 2:52 AM
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