More delays for the Avatar sequels

Original Poster
Joined: Oct 2005
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Article is in USA Today and likely other places.

Avatar 2, originally scheduled for 2016, then pushed to 2018, is delayed again. No new date at this point.
However, an interesting comment in the article says "Cameron had laid out 2020, 2022 and 2023 for the three Avatar follow-up films." So this is a bit perplexing.

The original, for those of us old enough to remember, came out in 2009. ;)

So you can take it off your calendar and seek whatever therapy is necessary.

Anyway, read all about it.
Mar 11, 2017 3:18 AM
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But I want a half a billion dollar exercise in mediocre storytelling right now, goddamnit!
Mar 11, 2017 3:37 AM
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While I'm completely okay with all of these Avatar sequels never happening, the fact that Cameron is wasting the end of his career fucking around with these dead end movies is heartbreaking.
Mar 11, 2017 4:04 AM
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Seems really strange that he's only made 1 film over such a long period of time.
Mar 11, 2017 4:35 AM
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Popcorn ReviewsFrom what I've seen of his filmography, The Abyss is my favorite film.

This is the kind of opinion that can make me forgive you for everything else.
Mar 11, 2017 6:24 AM
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Thankfully, that Pandora: The World of Avatar theme area is slated to open this year and should satisfy all my Avatar-related needs in the meantime. My forbidden, shameful needs.

Soon, Pandora. Soon.
Mar 11, 2017 6:30 AM
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Stu
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crumbsroomWhile I'm completely okay with all of these Avatar sequels never happening, the fact that Cameron is wasting the end of his career fucking around with these dead end movies is heartbreaking.

It's not like he had made a good movie in the 17 years prior to Avatar anyway, so his career had already peaked well beforehand, as far as I'm concerned.
Mar 11, 2017 6:42 AM
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Stu
crumbsroomWhile I'm completely okay with all of these Avatar sequels never happening, the fact that Cameron is wasting the end of his career fucking around with these dead end movies is heartbreaking.

It's not like he had made a good movie in the 17 years prior to Avatar anyway, so his career had already peaked well beforehand, as far as I'm concerned.

This is a pretty good point.
Mar 11, 2017 6:44 AM
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Bah. Pandora may have been derivative but it was still well written and an impressive movie experience unlike anything that had come before it. He has unique writing skills where he incorporates fascinating technology into a story in an organic way. Its never thrown in to impress but is intrinsic and important to the story. Even bio technology. Every cowboy film has some greenhorn gets bucked off his horse to be embarassed. And then gets advice that the two of them have to become one. But he incorporates the bio tether to make that something more than just a cliche. So yes its something we have seen before but more than something we have seen before. I understand the motive for the story was to safeguard the project so investors could get their money back. I was not disappointed. I am certain Avatar 2 will have an original story. But more importantly underwater is his best element. Its been so since
The Abyss. Now he has the perspective of being the worlds deepest diver in history. He has or had fresh in his mind the visceral true drama of someone undertaking an exploration into depths of the ocean. And will translate that unique experience to the big screen. This should really be something special. ?I am sorry its going to take so long. Interest will continue to flag.
Mar 11, 2017 8:14 AM
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They may need to do a special reshowing of the original Avatar in Theaters before showing the sequel.? The story was pretty basic but I am starting to forget some of the details.? I kind of want it fresh in my mind before seeing a sequel.
Mar 11, 2017 8:20 AM
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Also Titanic is under assessed. I didn't particularly think it was that great but other people did.
It won the Writer's Guild Award for best script. So the people who write scripts voted that this was the best script of the year.
He had to tell the story of 1500 people. Rich, Poor, the crew and the ship and its sinking. He did it via a rich girl and a poor?
boy who could travel into all areas of the ship. Not an easy task. Regardless of my assessment it was a great achievement.
Mar 11, 2017 8:20 AM
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Obi SpenobiBut I want a half a billion dollar exercise in mediocre storytelling right now, goddamnit!

Hahahaha!
It's funny 'cause it's true.
Mar 11, 2017 12:27 PM
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Robin McDonaldAlso Titanic is under assessed. I didn't particularly think it was that great but other people did.
It won the Writer's Guild Award for best script. So the people who write scripts voted that this was the best script of the year.
He had to tell the story of 1500 people. Rich, Poor, the crew and the ship and its sinking. He did it via a rich girl and a poor?
boy who could travel into all areas of the ship. Not an easy task. Regardless of my assessment it was a great achievement.

He reduced the story of 1,500 people to classicism. Rich bad. Poor good. Rich girl falls for poor boy. Forbidden love!

Structurally, the male-female relationship is similar to his other stories. A white woman is blocked her life in some way. Along comes her magic plucky Biehn-boy. A white male, of lower status who has lived a hardscrabble life which has prepared him to show this woman how to survive the movie. He is a romantic guide in this hero's quest. The woman has it within her to rise to the occasion, but he cheers her along and helps her find her mettle. Kyle Reese teaches Sarah Connor how make weapons and spot and defeat killer robots. Hicks shows Ripley how space marine kit works. Jack not only rescues Rose from her loveless rich-girl life, but guides her to safety as the ship sinks. The men die, or almost die (Hicks just barely makes it), as they risk their lives for their uptown girl.?

Cameron excels at action and visual wizardry. His dialogue and characterization is rather thin. Titanic was an awesome visual achievement that relied on cheap populism and dime novel romance. Billy Zane was a ridiculous caricature along with most everyone else in the film, but it was OK, because the melodrama was just a familiar structure around which we could see the ship and ultimately watch it sink.

It wasn't the best filmed *story* about Titanic even when it was released.?

Mar 11, 2017 12:53 PM
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Popcorn ReviewsFrom what I've seen of his filmography, The Abyss is my favorite film. It's a shame that it has a lot less popularity than the first 2 Terminator films, Titanic, and Avatar.

IMO, The Abyss is by far his best film. Best cast, best acting, best setting, best story (except for the aliens, that always felt tacked-on), the best at building tension in a realistic setting, the best portrayed relationships... Great story overall, a cast with all the grit you could ask for.

I actually prefer the theater version to the extended cut. Tighter, better tension, less of the aliens.

Cameron can't stay away from aliens. Especailly blue kitty people, which he seems to have fallen in love with. Or at least in lust with. :P
Mar 11, 2017 2:03 PM
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crumbsroomWhile I'm completely okay with all of these Avatar sequels never happening, the fact that Cameron is wasting the end of his career fucking around with these dead end movies is heartbreaking.


Agreed. Lets hope it's not the end of his career though.
Mar 11, 2017 2:17 PM
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Popcorn ReviewsFor the most part, I'd say that Cameron handles the visual aspect better than the story aspect in his films.


Honestly, I think Cameron handles both aspects pretty well. I'm usually engaged in a Cameron film for the characters, plot, and visual aspects. He's a very talented director in my opinion.

Although Avatar was OK in it's story, not his best, one of the main draws to the film was his use of 3D and how he incorporated that into each shot. Now, with these sequels coming out so much later and with everything being 3D now, you have to figure that that draw will not be nearly what it was in 2009. Hopefully, he will have improved on the story for the sequels quite a bit and this massive undertaking won't be a complete waste of his talent. I really like Caneron and want to give him the benefit of the doubt but I don't have a good feeling. Instead of being excited for these sequels, I find myself asking, "Why are you wasting your time on THREE sequels for one of your more mediocre films!"

Mar 11, 2017 3:37 PM
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https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/2017/03/09/james-cameron-on-the-lure-of-atlantis-and-making-avatar-2-3-4-and-5.html

Not sure how the costs on these don't keep soaring over time. I could see us getting parts 2 & 3 around 2020, yet I'll not hold my breath for 4 & 5.
Guy keeps saying how hard he's working on them, I don't feel it.

B+ for the first one, though it feels like 2 giant endings. When Home Tree goes down, that takes a hurricane out of its sails for me.
3D was masterful the first time; home 2D blu viewings not as much.
Mar 11, 2017 5:00 PM
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TeamCanadahttps://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/2017/03/09/james-cameron-on-the-lure-of-atlantis-and-making-avatar-2-3-4-and-5.html

Not sure how the costs on these don't keep soaring over time. I could see us getting parts 2 & 3 around 2020, yet I'll not hold my breath for 4 & 5.
Guy keeps saying how hard he's working on them, I don't feel it.

B+ for the first one, though it feels like 2 giant endings. When Home Tree goes down, that takes a hurricane out of its sails for me.
3D was masterful the first time; home 2D blu viewings not as much.

I think part of what Cameron is in love with is the development of the technology. The film, the story, the work involved making them... not so much. I think with his adventures in the ocean, the dives to Titanic and other places he's been, he's gotten so enamored with building the "how to do it" instead of "doing it", that the movie-making in general has become secondary. Whether or not we ever see any of these sequels really isn't important. We've seen massive advances in the technology since Avatar. Motion capture can do ANYTHING now. What will come next? And is Cameron the man to bring them to the film industry? Or has a taste of what he can accomplish in the real world overridden his interest in making movies?
Mar 12, 2017 3:19 AM
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I left The Abyss theatrical version mad. The aliens participation didn't make any sense at all to me.
And somehow I think Virgil and Lindsey's relationship got truncated and felt angrier. I didn't like them
as a couple. The film was a huge disappointment to me. The director's cut was like a magic wand waved over it.?
I loved it. Its one of my favorite movies. I think Aliens is better but I can see if someone thinks its his best film.
Mar 12, 2017 3:51 AM
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D Ray
TeamCanadahttps://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/2017/03/09/james-cameron-on-the-lure-of-atlantis-and-making-avatar-2-3-4-and-5.html

Not sure how the costs on these don't keep soaring over time. I could see us getting parts 2 & 3 around 2020, yet I'll not hold my breath for 4 & 5.
Guy keeps saying how hard he's working on them, I don't feel it.

B+ for the first one, though it feels like 2 giant endings. When Home Tree goes down, that takes a hurricane out of its sails for me.
3D was masterful the first time; home 2D blu viewings not as much.

I think part of what Cameron is in love with is the development of the technology. The film, the story, the work involved making them... not so much. I think with his adventures in the ocean, the dives to Titanic and other places he's been, he's gotten so enamored with building the "how to do it" instead of "doing it", that the movie-making in general has become secondary. Whether or not we ever see any of these sequels really isn't important. We've seen massive advances in the technology since Avatar. Motion capture can do ANYTHING now. What will come next? And is Cameron the man to bring them to the film industry? Or has a taste of what he can accomplish in the real world overridden his interest in making movies?

This comment pisses me off because he pays a great deal of attention to character and storytelling. In most of his films you know the names of the characters because they are entertaining and distinct. He makes very complex stories with scores of strings dangling and manages to weave them all together into a single story. Strange Days is another film he wrote which reflects his brilliance at writing a story which involves tech. Part of the reason there have been massive advances in motion capture is because of Cameron's contributions. Tech is never frivilously added to a Cameron film with the possible exception of True Lies. The tech he develops is always in service to enhancing the story and provide an emotional experience for the audience. . He doesn't have to make these films but we are privileged that he does. There were dozens of 3D films prior to Avatar and they were totally forgettable. He produced something so epic it trounced box office records of his own film which trounced box office records of ever film in history that came before it. He's making a live action movie that is set underwater. You know you are going to see something unlike anything you have seen before. Has he lost his interest in making movies? What are you asking? That's an obvious NO. He's like Malick putting ten years into a film.

I have to cop to being a major Cameron apologist. There are very good reasons for the stories we got in Titanic and Avatar. Titanic is a story with a lot of layers of anatomy with many stories to tell. It is the definitive story of the Titanic in film form. It is a story he really cared about telling with all his heart and soul. Avatar is no different. He gave Avatar an story armature. It was 'Dances With Wolves" (effectively). There are many other similar stories. But he wrote a story superior to any other story with that structure with more nuance and none of its writing was lazy. I have read using an established structure was to assure Avatar's commercial success. To his credit he picked one of the most sprawling and complex story armatures you could employ. I'll eat my hat if Avatar 2 is not an original story.

I want to make a stark contrast between two comparable projects. Avatar which was a labor of love and Peter Jackson's the Hobbit. Peter Jackson is great when he is in love with what he is doing. His Lord of the Rings Trilogy is a classic. However bloated it is with painfully slow storytelling you can see the love and creativity that went into King Kong.

Peter Jackson said in an interview long before production started that he never wanted to do The Hobbit. He didn't love it. Millions love The Hobbit. I credit Jackson for trying his damnedest not to make it. The Hobbit is an example of Jackson writing something he didn't love and trying to overlay something he did love on top of it. In my opinion it did a huge disservice to the source material.

Cameron took 3D, Something which had before been underwhelming technology to another level and created a new film experience which literally changed the world of entertainment for the next decade and probably forever. The 3D is important to the fabric of the film The film does not work as powerfully without the 3D because it was Cameron's goal to create a new cinematic experience. Not just shoot it in 3D But use the 3D to enhance the visceral experience for the audience in a way that made them feel like they had traveled somewhere else. They were participating in the space. As critic David Denby would comment, Cameron empowered the audience. They could choose where to look in that 3D space. 3D to Cameron was not a gimmick. ?So when you bemoan your 2D home experience it is to miss that Avatar was world changing because you can't stay home and watch Avatar. It can only be seen in the theater. I'd say the same for Gravity, and Fury Road. You are making a point about the story. But it is to miss everything else that made Avatar a not to be missed event.

Peter Jackson decided to shoot The Hobbit in HDX. He too had an opportunity to bring the audience an entirely new layer of immersion to film. But he didn't make HDX ready for prime time. He didn't give HDX the time and effort Cameron would have to use it powerfully part of the story. HDX was a flop. Cameron is a film artist whose ambition is to give the audience a new cinematic experience they have not experienced before. He is writing an epic set underwater. Regardless of what they thought of Titanic's characters he sit delivered on the promise of a spectacular film experience and the whole world came to see Avatar. And they will come again to see Avatar 2 because of how much care skill and craftsmanship he puts into his films. In some sense his films are bringing to the audience something he actually lives out in his life. My answer is of course he is the man to bring these new innovations to the public. Unlike film makers who are contractually obligated to make their films he has a real vision for this world. Who in their right mind would set a film underwater if they did not have something amazing in mind?
Mar 12, 2017 5:17 AM
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