The thread in which we sift through the smoldering wreckage of the American experiment

Joined: Feb 2015
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DetrimentalZunger said the manifesto guy didn't understand gender when it seems like he understood it fairly well.

This is not a helpful criticism.

DetrimentalAlso in the article he says that not all ideas have basic legitmacy, implying that everything that conservative idealogy has to teach is horseshit.

Not all ideas do have legitimacy. Racism, as an idea, is not as legitimate as the categorical imperative, for example. Anyway, I didn't see such a broad sweeping swipe at conservatives in Zunger's retort, outside of certain conservative ideas (cultural homogeneity) that negatively impact others in the workplace.
Aug 13, 2017 6:48 AM
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Detrimental
wirthling
GoogleBroWomen on average look for more work-life balance while men have a higher drive for status on average. Unfortunately, as long as tech and leadership remain high status, lucrative careers, men may disproportionately want to be in them. Allowing and truly endorsing (as part of our culture) part time work though can keep more women in tech.

Here we get both of those points in one paragraph.

That was based on actual scientific research, he wasn't just pulling stuff out of his ass.

Oh for fuck's sake. The douchebro is stampeding around scientific research that he has no idea of the contextual debates. This why he makes the embarrassing errors like thinking the nature/nurture debate is still relevant. It's long been settled as and/both. A blank slate is a strawman because no one thinks that.
Furthermore, you realize that research that generates a significant p value is the only stuff that can get published. This creates an institutional pressure to find differences amongst the genders.?
The douchebro argument isn't science. It's sciencitism bullshit to the point of being pseudoscience.
I've seen very little agreement with the manifesto among actually scientists. I've seen so pretty solid take down through.?
Aug 13, 2017 7:03 AM
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It should also be noted that the Google's douches' first interview after ?getting fired was with Stefan Molynuex. So yeah I'm inclined to see him as an unreasonable ideologue and not really engaging in science.?
Aug 13, 2017 7:12 AM
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I've made a lot of dumb choices in my life but I absolutely know I am a smarter than Xenophon and also a better person. Go fuck yourself with your off-brand Gorilla Mindset bullshit. You're a piece of shit.
Aug 13, 2017 10:26 AM
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Haha. He teaches people about life. Hahahaha.
Aug 13, 2017 10:29 AM
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XenophonYeah, this is my thread now. Just like any other thread here when I want it to be.

Hahahahaha.
Aug 13, 2017 10:31 AM
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Meow
?XenophonYeah, this is my thread now. Just like any other thread here when I want it to be.

Hahahahaha.

Xenophon, just to clarify because you're extremely dumb, successful and well balanced people do not have to make these kinds of statements because they do not have to aggressively display their success to strangers (we are considering "owning" a thread success for you because apparently that's what you think it is.) It's something losers ("cucks") do! Like, constantly!
Aug 13, 2017 10:34 AM
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ej
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3682
I'd like to apologize for James Alex Fields. Not only did he live in Ohio (that's in the past tense, as he likely won't be doing that again), but he's originally from Florence, Kentucky, which is essentially Cincinnati.

His current address is in Maumee, Ohio, a fittingly-named town for a puffy 20-year-old tough-guy man-baby who moved there only because that's where his mother recently relocated.

NK (North Korea) can go ahead and nuke NK (Northern Kentucky); if the fallout zone includes Cincinnati, then, oh well.
Aug 13, 2017 12:16 PM
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ej
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3682
Rooby Roo

Hey, bitch, I work as a meat-cutter in a deli, so LISTEN UP.

Holy fuck. A Meat-Cutter? Xeno is successful and powerful.

Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Aug 13, 2017 12:19 PM
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I've said this before, but I used to be under the impression that Xenophon suffered a brain injury at some point during his posting here and we should take pity on him. I'm 99+% that's not true, but I still can't entirely shake this mistaken belief.
Aug 13, 2017 1:04 PM
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Detrimental
Janson Jinnistan
Detrimental
Janson Jinnistan
DetrimentalIf you had actually read the manifesto you probably won't have been so impressed by Zunger in the first place.

The fuck?

what?

I've read both. ?What in the original manifesto undermines Zunger's criticism?

Zunger said the manifesto guy didn't understand gender when it seems like he understood it fairly well.

It was genuinely sad to read you post this.
Aug 13, 2017 3:18 PM
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I haven't read Zunger's rebuttal, so I can't comment on its quality. I have read the original memo and I can say that it misleads with social science to create a pseudo-scientific impression that career outcomes likely in significant part the result of discriminatory sociological factors are the result of heritable differences between men and women. It uses that as justification to be dismissive of practices meant to combat the effects of both gender and race based discrimination. Thankfully (and curiously) he avoids trotting out Murray-style racial arguments to justify disparities in racial outcomes.

The memo also has some embarrassingly sophomoric stereotypes used in the service of a fallacy of the middle-ground argument that misunderstands political biases as well.

To the extent that Det thinks it is a sophisticated argument with merit, that is sad. The upshot is Det has shown willingness to read up on issues, and I'd strongly recommend reading some of the scientific rebuttals to the memo.
Aug 13, 2017 5:02 PM
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The last time this topic flared up as much to my recollection is when future Obama admin official and then Harvard president Larry Summers attributed gender gaps in top science positions to differences in "intrinsic aptitude" among the sexes. That was in 2005.

I remember during that a lot of people pointed out that the gender gap had been closing fairly year over year for some time. Moreover, it was more of a bottlom-up process where the gap was closing (or reversing) first at the high school level, then the undergraduate, then post-grad, etc. This was the same process that happened in fields where women actually significantly surpassed men in representation.

It would seem awfully arbitrary and coincidental if the gap twenty, then ten, then five years prior to when Larry Summers made his comment could be made up by social changes, but right at that moment in an on-going trend the gap had settled on where sexual dimorphism was the strongest explanation and cause to abandon a critical eye towards sources of discrimination.

Since then, the gap has continued to shrink further. (Go figure.) The same issue applies here.
Aug 13, 2017 5:14 PM
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whathaveicreated
wirthlingI can't keep up -- are liberals beta cuck pansies or violent unhinged animals?


Depends. Somehow tied to melatonin levels.

Is that what's making me aggressive in the mornings?
Aug 13, 2017 5:23 PM
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Esoteric AllusionI've said this before, but I used to be under the impression that Xenophon suffered a brain injury at some point during his posting here and we should take pity on him. I'm 99+% that's not true, but I still can't entirely shake this mistaken belief.

Can you not use brain injuries to... do everything you just did in this post? Fuck you, you are supposed to be one of the good guys
Aug 13, 2017 5:29 PM
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Sorcerer Supreme Nameless
Esoteric AllusionI've said this before, but I used to be under the impression that Xenophon suffered a brain injury at some point during his posting here and we should take pity on him. I'm 99+% that's not true, but I still can't entirely shake this mistaken belief.

Can you not use brain injuries to... do everything you just did in this post? Fuck you, you are supposed to be one of the good guys

Huh? I once thought he suffered a brain injury which affected his cognition. His posting habits have some TBI-ish qualities, so it made sense to me. I later learned this is not true (maybe it was someone else?), but occasionally something he writes makes a little self-doubt about that creep in.
Aug 13, 2017 5:35 PM
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Esoteric Allusion
Sorcerer Supreme Nameless
Esoteric AllusionI've said this before, but I used to be under the impression that Xenophon suffered a brain injury at some point during his posting here and we should take pity on him. I'm 99+% that's not true, but I still can't entirely shake this mistaken belief.

Can you not use brain injuries to... do everything you just did in this post? Fuck you, you are supposed to be one of the good guys

Huh? I once thought he suffered a brain injury which affected his cognition. His posting habits have some TBI-ish qualities, so it made sense to me. I later learned this is not true (maybe it was someone else?), but occasionally something he writes makes a little self-doubt about that creep in.

Yeah and how is that yours to speak of? I have three traumatic brain injuries and do you think they affect everyone the same? Is there some objective "brain injury" qualities someone hasn't pointed out to me? I mean, I can list them off to you. Do you want to know how cruel this existence is? You wanna know why there is such a strong correlation between homelessness and TBI??

Check your privilege, dude
Aug 13, 2017 5:39 PM
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Sorcerer Supreme Nameless
Esoteric Allusion
Sorcerer Supreme Nameless
Esoteric AllusionI've said this before, but I used to be under the impression that Xenophon suffered a brain injury at some point during his posting here and we should take pity on him. I'm 99+% that's not true, but I still can't entirely shake this mistaken belief.

Can you not use brain injuries to... do everything you just did in this post? Fuck you, you are supposed to be one of the good guys

Huh? I once thought he suffered a brain injury which affected his cognition. His posting habits have some TBI-ish qualities, so it made sense to me. I later learned this is not true (maybe it was someone else?), but occasionally something he writes makes a little self-doubt about that creep in.

Yeah and how is that yours to speak of? I have three traumatic brain injuries and do you think they affect everyone the same? Is there some objective "brain injury" qualities someone hasn't pointed out to me? I mean, I can list them off to you. Do you want to know how cruel this existence is? You wanna know why there is such a strong correlation between homelessness and TBI??

Check your privilege, dude

No, I don't think TBI's affect everyone the same. I do think that there are types of TBI's, vehicle accidents with a coup-counter-coup brain injury most famously, that do produce a family pattern of symptoms that are common and attributable to the injury. I provide services to victims of TBI's.

I'm not mocking people who have brain injuries. I literally thought Xenophon had a brain injury and this would help explain how he thinks and expresses himself. I didn't diagnose him with a brain injury on the basis of his posts. I'm saying I thought he had a brain injury and this affected his cognitive processing. Maybe you're the person I had him confused with.
Aug 13, 2017 5:49 PM
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Esoteric AllusionNo, I don't think TBI's affect everyone the same. I do think that there are types of TBI's, vehicle accidents with a coup-counter-coup brain injury most famously, that do produce a family pattern of symptoms that are common and attributable to the injury. I provide services to victims of TBI's.


I'm not mocking people who have brain injuries. I literally thought Xenophon had a brain injury and this would help explain how he thinks and expresses himself. I didn't diagnose him with a brain injury on the basis of his posts. I'm saying I thought he had a brain injury. Maybe you're the person I had him confused with.

Do you have a TBI?

This is important because there is nothing more fucking annoying than people in your position, people who think they are helping and this is how you think and go about it. Seriously, go dunk your head
Aug 13, 2017 5:50 PM
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Sorcerer Supreme Nameless
Esoteric AllusionNo, I don't think TBI's affect everyone the same. I do think that there are types of TBI's, vehicle accidents with a coup-counter-coup brain injury most famously, that do produce a family pattern of symptoms that are common and attributable to the injury. I provide services to victims of TBI's.


I'm not mocking people who have brain injuries. I literally thought Xenophon had a brain injury and this would help explain how he thinks and expresses himself. I didn't diagnose him with a brain injury on the basis of his posts. I'm saying I thought he had a brain injury. Maybe you're the person I had him confused with.

Do you have a TBI? Answer the question

No, I don't have a TBI. Whether or not I have a TBI doesn't affect the truth of anything I said. I'm sorry that you suffered brain injuries. I really am. But what I'm saying doesn't require personal experience with them. I am not saying all brain injuries are the same and will cause people to behave the same. In fact, the fact that not all injuries are the same argues against having a TBI providing first-hand experience of what anyone else with a TBI is going through. It does so happen that my job in the field of cognitive disabilities does touch on TBI's, so I do have more knowledge of TBI's than an average person. I'm not trying to underwrite anything I stated with that experience, though.
Aug 13, 2017 5:55 PM
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