can this film be too over analyzed?

Original Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 173
This is not a negative statement at all, I enjoy reading everyones theories and have posted my own. My question is are people getting to a point of such deep analysis that there seeing things that arent really there? I could be wrong I would like to hear opinions. For instance(nothing against rusty nails at all) but is it really possible that the apt. numbers really suggest the ages Diane was molested? and the neighbors name suggest blood of her lost virginity to her father? Maybe it is I dont know, I wonder though is there a point were you say ok some of these little details really have no meaning to the overall film?
Nov 21, 2001 10:29 AM
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Fear,

Yeah, good comments. I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, we don't know what those "little details" are. If we did, we could just ignore them or accept a mundane explanation for them.

For example, if we accept a mundane explanation for the ashtray on the coffee table during the love scene, we can accept that the neighbor was just a neighbor and not attach any Freudian significance to her.

But if (in order to place the ashtray on the coffe table during the second love scene) we assume that the neighbor in the dream was really Diane's former live-in lover coming back for her stuff after their break-up, then we need to somehow explain why she was depicted in the dream as a neighbor. One way to accomplish this is to assume that her name in the dream represents her father's abuse.

Analyzing this movie quickly becomes a question of deciding which details have significance and which ones you are willing to accept a mundane explanation for. Problem is, those mundane explanations sometimes require "going outside the movie" and relying on one's own world experiences. Which is not particularly analytical.
Nov 21, 2001 11:33 AM
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I think that part of the beauty of this movie, is that it's completely up to the viwer themselves to decide what has happened. If somebody wants to look into the significance of specific apartment numbers and prop placement etc., then it's totally up to them. Whatever makes the film meaningful to you. Personally, I came to my own, extremely non-linear conclusions awhile ago, and feel that any more nit-picking is unecessary, but I still enjoy reading other's interpretations.
Nov 21, 2001 12:22 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by fearfactory1311
This is not a negative statement at all, I enjoy reading everyones theories and have posted my own. My question is are people getting to a point of such deep analysis that there seeing things that arent really there? I could be wrong I would like to hear opinions. For instance(nothing against rusty nails at all) but is it really possible that the apt. numbers really suggest the ages Diane was molested? and the neighbors name suggest blood of her lost virginity to her father? Maybe it is I dont know, I wonder though is there a point were you say ok some of these little details really have no meaning to the overall film? [/QUOTE]

I think that over analyzing this film is not about seeing things that aren't there. If you see it, it is there, at least with lynch films and such :p . If we accept any theories, simple or complex, as one's own interpretation and respect them, we have to respect even the things that aren't there for us, cause for the one who talked about them they are there. That's part of the beauty of surreal films: they do not dictate you what you should think about them, their meaning relies upon your imagination. Now, i don't agree with lots of the interpretations i've read on such boards, and i do agree with lots of others, even if all of them cannot (rationally) be correct at once.

On the other hand, as to over-analyzing films, i believe that at some point, different point for each one of us, they kind of lose their magic and true atmosphere. Kind of like solving the puzzle. You may have done it, you may have the whole puzzle together but to some people the truly magic and intriguing part are the puzzle pieces scattered and his effort to put them together. Most people like to solve puzzles themselves, and if someone helps them they feel that it's not solely their achievement. When you take another's theory and make it your own you cannot feel as satisfied as you would if you made your own theory. Kind of like when you play adventure games and consult walkthroughs while doing it: it loses its meaning..

But, although i've such a strong opinion against analyzing films, i do it all the time.. It's just that most of the time i wish i didn't, or at least i didn't chat with others about my theories..
Nov 26, 2001 4:16 AM
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Interesting, early questions, here.
Mar 21, 2003 6:00 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by wowbobwow
snip ...
But, although i've such a strong opinion against analyzing films, i do it all the time.. It's just that most of the time i wish i didn't, or at least i didn't chat with others about my theories..
[/QUOTE]


We've all been invited to a game. There are no written rules of how to play or who (if anyone) to play with. There is no set objective - no described finish line to cross ..

Yet, we've all been invited.

You may not know why or how exactly - not something you can point to and say why but you know it to be so. Even if Lynch didn't put out his 10 questions - you would know it to be so.

There is a very flawed beauty to this whole thing. Knowing that people can't even agree on what a single frame from the movie shows or doesn't show - how will we ever agree on the bigger issues? Or does it really matter?

Collaborating or not is a good issue. Some people have had bad experience in school from being in the group with the three lazy bums so that only two did the work ... right? However, in complex and robust issues - the collective knowledge and thoughts of many people have a great natural advantage. Which way to go? Are movies social experiences or you alone in the dark? Each man will decide for herself.

To my mind, the beauty of MD is that there are no walk-throughs or clues. The joy comes from discovery and personal accomplishment. However, reading what others have to say might give you something to think about ... something that (even unrelated) gives you a new idea.

Doing something solely by ourselves? Well, you learn from peers, you learn from books, you learn from relatives, friends - none of what we apply is solely from ourselves. Is discussing films any different?
Mar 21, 2003 8:02 AM
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I don't consider MD a puzzle. And definitely not a mind****************.

It stirred in me deep feelings of...pain and loneliness I never knew I had. I identified with Diane. Her guilt, her anger, her dreams, her failure, her suffering.

HER SUFFERING.

Mulholland Drive wasn't a puzzle to me, it was the portrayal of a rather FAMILIAR primal, limbic sensation. I felt dizzy the first time I saw it. I almost threw up, was nauseous, but obviously moved.

I didn't feel the need to understand nor to analyze. I only knew what I FELT!!!!

Besides, I don't think there's such thing as 'overanalysis' of a piece of...art. Movie art.;)

Interesting question, yes. But IMHO, the answer is NO.
Mar 21, 2003 8:10 AM
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Posts: 1056
This is the female form,
A divine nimbus exhales it from head to foot,
It attracts with fierce undeniable attraction,
I am drawn by its breath as if I were no more than a helpless
vapor, all falls aside but myself and it,
Books, art, religion, time, the visible and solid earth, and what
was expected of heaven and fear?d of hell, are
now consumed,
Mad filaments, ungovernable shoots play out of it, the response
likewise ungovernable,
Hair, bosom, hips, bend of legs, negligent falling hands all diffused.
mine too diffused,
Ebb stung by the flow, and flow stung by the ebb, love-flesh
swelling and deliciously aching,
Limitless limpid jets of love hot and enormous, quivering jelly
of love, white blow and delirious juice,
Bridegroom night of love walking surely and softly into the
prostrate dawn,
Undulating into the willing and yielding day,
Lost in the cleave of the clasping and sweet-flesh?d day.


hmmm .. I'm guessing the Theme Song from Girls Gone Wild .. the extended cut ...
Mar 21, 2003 1:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 105
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ctyankee
This is the female form,
A divine nimbus exhales it from head to foot,
It attracts with fierce undeniable attraction,
I am drawn by its breath as if I were no more than a helpless
vapor, all falls aside but myself and it,
Books, art, religion, time, the visible and solid earth, and what
was expected of heaven and fear?d of hell, are
now consumed,
Mad filaments, ungovernable shoots play out of it, the response
likewise ungovernable,
Hair, bosom, hips, bend of legs, negligent falling hands all diffused.
mine too diffused,
Ebb stung by the flow, and flow stung by the ebb, love-flesh
swelling and deliciously aching,
Limitless limpid jets of love hot and enormous, quivering jelly
of love, white blow and delirious juice,
Bridegroom night of love walking surely and softly into the
prostrate dawn,
Undulating into the willing and yielding day,
Lost in the cleave of the clasping and sweet-flesh?d day.


hmmm .. I'm guessing the Theme Song from Girls Gone Wild .. the extended cut ...
[/QUOTE]

:confused:

If you must know, I was quoting Walt Whitman.

Does my sig bother you? Does it make you...squirm????
Mar 21, 2003 2:24 PM
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Posts: 105
He was (rumoured to be) ho-muh-SEXHUL too! How's THAT????:p
Mar 21, 2003 2:33 PM
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Posts: 34
wierd
Mar 21, 2003 4:02 PM
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Posts: 462
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bellabuddy
torrid: What did you "know" about "what you felt"? I ask this in all seriousness. After all, Diane didn't feel the need to "understand nor to analyze" whether she wanted to be a "moviestar" or a "great actress", and this seemed to get her in trouble.


-bellabuddy the threadkiller
[/QUOTE]
Are you feeling guilty about killing threads? ;)
Mar 22, 2003 3:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 105
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bellabuddy
torrid: What did you "know" about "what you felt"? I ask this in all seriousness. After all, Diane didn't feel the need to "understand nor to analyze" whether she wanted to be a "moviestar" or a "great actress", and this seemed to get her in trouble.


-bellabuddy the threadkiller
[/QUOTE]

There?s nothing wrong with ambition. At one point in our lives, we all HAVE to stand at the bottom of the stairs. Stairs to success?to our personal sense of complacency. As for Diane, it seemed (to me at least) as though she FELT her feet were somehow nailed to the bottommost step. I do not know exactly when it happened and what the circumstances are surrounding her dead-end state of mind?(hence the need for an educated guess?FOOD FOR THOUGHT THEORETICAL POSTS, IMO?from all MD posters)?and for the record, I tend to think there?s nothing wrong with a little speculation, or ?overanalyses? if you may. DL, after all, HAS provided us with the necessary (albeit minimalist) symbolic scenarios?proof that we are, indeed, ENCOURAGED to do just that.

And all the other denigrating events (e.g. pool party, unsettling masturbation) were simply fuel to the fire (i.e. whatever neurosis(es) she was apparently developing). I think that she already felt like a loser BEFORE Camilla. She had a goal but not the means to achieve it. She fell ?INLOVE? with a *****. She wanted to be a ?successful? actress but she couldn?t act.

She got in trouble, yes.

But it wasn?t because she wanted to be a ?great actress?, or a ?moviestar?. Or both.

I don?t think Diane has to analyze why she dreamed the way she did. I?ll even go as far as saying that there?s no need to scrutinize her going to the ?City of Dreams? in order to achieve ?stardom?. Even ants have a goal in life. It?s general consensus.

To answer your question, Bellabuddy, even if I felt EXACTLY like Diane did in the movie, I wouldn?t say I?d get in ?trouble? with the choices I will make to solve my dilemma?(as opposed to the path that SHE took)?her means to her end are not the same as mine.

I was simply stating that I FELT her pain. Provided I didn?t know EXACTLY what I felt?But it did not (NEVER) compel me in anyway to take it out on anything else, living or inanimate. Analysis or no.

Sensations are sensations. Crimes are crimes.

MOREOVER, perhaps theorizing or hypothesizing the reasons for her actions would prove an interesting, stimulating debate for all those interested. But in an immortal story such as Diane?s and Camilla?s?that?s all they ever will be?hypotheses.

So analyze if you must, and have fun in the process?but don?t fool yourself into thinking that you could get Diane in any less ?trouble? if you do?

Anyway, I am getting dizzy.

My point is?analyzing and understanding helps, yes. But you have to focus on what to analyze. Wanting to be a ?great actress? and ?moviestar???? What the heck is wrong with that? Where?s the trouble in that??? Do you really have to analyze THAT???

Like some scientist once said? ?stare too hard at a tree and you might lose sight of the forest?..?

Ask the right questions and you?ll get the right answers?

Did I make any sense?

PS: I don?t read obituaries. How many threads did you snuff, Buddy??? How many?
Mar 22, 2003 6:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 105
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bellabuddy
When we share our views, sometimes we feel guilty in the morning, as if we had had someone murdered. Now what does that remind us of?
Who ( or what ) is causing this guilt in us?
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, bud, you lost me at 'guilty'...

Morning??? Wha???

I'll say this though...when I post mine...I am absolutely sure that I am 100% guilt-free...

No analyzing, no understanding.

I am 100% guilt-free!!!

I swear!
Mar 22, 2003 6:12 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Missy Semi-Robotic Thumb
wierd [/QUOTE]

what is?:confused:
Mar 22, 2003 6:26 AM
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Posts: 892
I thought I was the all time thread killer, I'm glad someone else is taking the blame. This thread is dead now for sure.
Mar 22, 2003 3:21 PM
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not dead yet!
Mar 22, 2003 3:30 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by bellabuddy
torrid: Maybe you can help me then. You don't believe in such a thing as real guilt? [/QUOTE]

Not about posting, no. I only feel it when I sin. Where's the sin in POSTING?????????

What the heck is going on here????
Mar 22, 2003 7:40 PM
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Posts: 105
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HarryTuttle
not dead yet! [/QUOTE]

Damn right it isn't.;)
Mar 22, 2003 7:43 PM
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Posts: 105
Something tells me I shouldn't be taking things at face value here....hmmmmmmmmm..........

;)
Mar 22, 2003 7:46 PM
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