Oct 18, 2002 4:39 PM

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This is an interesting idea, but I rather wonder if the lock-barrel on that blue box just rotates freely without any real mechanical actuation of a mechanism.

I wonder if the lid is actually held shut by friction: the sound of the box opening suggests wood painted with - I don't know - aircraft paint.

It's a prop, and doesn't have to do a great deal other than look nice and open. And when you're doing multiple takes, getting the lock-barrel to line up exactly the same place each time would be a real headache.

It is even possible that the hands in-frame are not those of Laura Elena Harring: it is common for a (less expensive) stand-in to do insert shots like this.

The shape of the triangle comprising the keyhole, having three points, is very interesting, and suggests a triumvirate.

Still, you may be onto something. Anyone else care to elaborate?

I wonder if the lid is actually held shut by friction: the sound of the box opening suggests wood painted with - I don't know - aircraft paint.

It's a prop, and doesn't have to do a great deal other than look nice and open. And when you're doing multiple takes, getting the lock-barrel to line up exactly the same place each time would be a real headache.

It is even possible that the hands in-frame are not those of Laura Elena Harring: it is common for a (less expensive) stand-in to do insert shots like this.

The shape of the triangle comprising the keyhole, having three points, is very interesting, and suggests a triumvirate.

Still, you may be onto something. Anyone else care to elaborate?

Oct 20, 2002 3:39 AM

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[QUOTE]*Originally posted by TristanLove *

**With the whole number 6 significance, could it be signifying the Cinderella concept of time is up. In Diane's case with the 6 0'clock meaning: Back to HELL (reality) for her. It starts at 6 0'clock when they first discovered it in Rita's purse. It goes all around and back to it again. Her whole situation is HELL-like. No way out (getting rid) of that blue cube (mind) except silencing it with suicide. That Blue Box is hers and hers alone that she futilely tried to disown. **[/QUOTE]

Interesting idea. Or it could mean that that I'm wrong about the orientation and things are read upside down (or backwards like in the mirror that Rita looks at the poster through).

The clock upside down (but not backwards) would read 12,5,11,5,12 ... which would mean that the clock has struck 12 for her dream to end .... or .... something else ...?

Interesting idea. Or it could mean that that I'm wrong about the orientation and things are read upside down (or backwards like in the mirror that Rita looks at the poster through).

The clock upside down (but not backwards) would read 12,5,11,5,12 ... which would mean that the clock has struck 12 for her dream to end .... or .... something else ...?

Oct 20, 2002 5:11 PM

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Let me take a shot at that something else. I noticed that two of the numbers are repeated and only the middle number is different. That strikes me as perhaps a likely pattern. But the numbers are too few to figure anything out .. 6,11,5,11,6 ... so I looked at it a different way. Not with the numbers but with the clock.

Perhaps Lynch has given us a clue with who the reader of the cube is.**It is Rita, the woman who looks at the Gilda poster through the mirror - does she or the dreamer see things mirrored or is she the mirror image of something? **

I drew five clocks on a piece of paper representing the positions of the hand on the cube lock 6,11,5,11 and 6. I invite you to take a couple seconds and try this yourself. I then took them to a mirror and looked at them. Now the hands point to the numbers: 6,1,7,1,6!

61 transversed is 16! 1 + 6 = 7 ... the middle number is 7 and the last two numbers are 16! 1+6 = 7. A huge clue that 16 = 7 ... perhaps?**As in literally, backwards or forwards the numbers add to 7 !!!**

An additional way of looking at it is:

6+1+7+1+6= 21 .... 2+1=3 or 3 as in a love triangle, the triangular box, the triangular key etc.

So, what do you think?

Perhaps Lynch has given us a clue with who the reader of the cube is.

I drew five clocks on a piece of paper representing the positions of the hand on the cube lock 6,11,5,11 and 6. I invite you to take a couple seconds and try this yourself. I then took them to a mirror and looked at them. Now the hands point to the numbers: 6,1,7,1,6!

61 transversed is 16! 1 + 6 = 7 ... the middle number is 7 and the last two numbers are 16! 1+6 = 7. A huge clue that 16 = 7 ... perhaps?

An additional way of looking at it is:

6+1+7+1+6= 21 .... 2+1=3 or 3 as in a love triangle, the triangular box, the triangular key etc.

So, what do you think?

Oct 20, 2002 7:42 PM

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I continue to disagree with you on these additions of numbers. It is completely arbitrary and it has no meaning in itself. At most, what you may obtain is pure coincidence. And Mulholland Drive is so much logical that I can't believe Lynch could seriously be an adept of that kind of tricks.

The key is probably triangular to avoid a too strong link with the real key. If the former was strictly identical to the latter, we could imagine it would immediatly kill Diane's dream.

Lynch said he didn't make the blue box but I don't know if that box was made specially for MD.

However Rochas made an interesting remark: since the barrel turns really, it means that the key hole doesn't have to be regularly oriented with the edges of the box. But it is! Again it reinforces the idea that this is not a goof. Special orientations are choosen, either by Lynch's will or because there is a real mechanism inside.

Now the argument which kills: from the different orientations of the hole, you see that they are all multiples of elementary rotations of 45 degrees and it means that at least one of your hour is wrong ctyankee!!! It can't be an integer number of hours in each case. (3 hours for a rotation of 90 degrees implies 1h30 only for 45 degrees!!!)

In reality, with your convention it is the series

12 4.5 10.5 4.5 12

but again I say these numbers are not unique. You could have describe the key hole orientations in degrees as

0 135 335 135 0

or as

0 3 7 3 0

or as

8 3 7 3 8

etc...

The only plausible interpretations I see are:

1) yes, this series is symmetrical as if it was an indication that we are now crossing a mirror and entering a symmetrical world from Betty's world.

2) since when Rita opens the box, the orientation of the hole is identical to what it was at the begining, it could symbolically mean that the key was in fact unnecessary to open the box. A way to say : "Diane: your mind is the real key. Only you can open that box"

3) When Rita opens the door, the large edge of the triangle is near the edge of the box, as to show the side to open it.

The key is probably triangular to avoid a too strong link with the real key. If the former was strictly identical to the latter, we could imagine it would immediatly kill Diane's dream.

Lynch said he didn't make the blue box but I don't know if that box was made specially for MD.

However Rochas made an interesting remark: since the barrel turns really, it means that the key hole doesn't have to be regularly oriented with the edges of the box. But it is! Again it reinforces the idea that this is not a goof. Special orientations are choosen, either by Lynch's will or because there is a real mechanism inside.

Now the argument which kills: from the different orientations of the hole, you see that they are all multiples of elementary rotations of 45 degrees and it means that at least one of your hour is wrong ctyankee!!! It can't be an integer number of hours in each case. (3 hours for a rotation of 90 degrees implies 1h30 only for 45 degrees!!!)

In reality, with your convention it is the series

12 4.5 10.5 4.5 12

but again I say these numbers are not unique. You could have describe the key hole orientations in degrees as

0 135 335 135 0

or as

0 3 7 3 0

or as

8 3 7 3 8

etc...

The only plausible interpretations I see are:

1) yes, this series is symmetrical as if it was an indication that we are now crossing a mirror and entering a symmetrical world from Betty's world.

2) since when Rita opens the box, the orientation of the hole is identical to what it was at the begining, it could symbolically mean that the key was in fact unnecessary to open the box. A way to say : "Diane: your mind is the real key. Only you can open that box"

3) When Rita opens the door, the large edge of the triangle is near the edge of the box, as to show the side to open it.

Oct 21, 2002 7:16 AM

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We can all pack up and go home.

I just went out and purchased the actual prop Blue-Box and prop Blue-Box Key on Ebay (for more than many people would outlay on an SUV), and proudly announce that they should be in my possession within 52 hours.

These artefacts will then be immediately conveyed to Switzerland where they will be subjected to destructive scientific analysis by the CERN team in Geneva who may very likely insert them into a particle accelerator or even a cyclotron in order to penetrate the multidimensional secrets they contain.

And once the hand-picked team of Nobel Laureates have plumbed the secrets of the artefacts in question, we shall have the irrefutable proof, the answer, the final and resounding conclusion of our obsessive inquiry.

I just went out and purchased the actual prop Blue-Box and prop Blue-Box Key on Ebay (for more than many people would outlay on an SUV), and proudly announce that they should be in my possession within 52 hours.

These artefacts will then be immediately conveyed to Switzerland where they will be subjected to destructive scientific analysis by the CERN team in Geneva who may very likely insert them into a particle accelerator or even a cyclotron in order to penetrate the multidimensional secrets they contain.

And once the hand-picked team of Nobel Laureates have plumbed the secrets of the artefacts in question, we shall have the irrefutable proof, the answer, the final and resounding conclusion of our obsessive inquiry.

Oct 21, 2002 9:40 AM

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[QUOTE]*Originally posted by gandalf36 *

**Now the argument which kills: from the different orientations of the hole, you see that they are all multiples of elementary rotations of 45 degrees and it means that at least one of your hour is wrong ctyankee!!! It can't be an integer number of hours in each case. (3 hours for a rotation of 90 degrees implies 1h30 only for 45 degrees!!!) **

In reality, with your convention it is the series

12 4.5 10.5 4.5 12

but again I say these numbers are not unique. You could have describe the key hole orientations in degrees as

0 135 335 135 0

or as

0 3 7 3 0

or as

8 3 7 3 8

etc...

[/QUOTE]

I first need to understand your opinion. Certainly a circle has 360 degrees. The "elementary rotations" of 45 degrees ... I don't follow ... what rotations are you referring to and how to they relate to 45 degrees? What do you mean by elementary? Please also explain your series of numbers so that I can follow your line of thought.

In reality, with your convention it is the series

12 4.5 10.5 4.5 12

but again I say these numbers are not unique. You could have describe the key hole orientations in degrees as

0 135 335 135 0

or as

0 3 7 3 0

or as

8 3 7 3 8

etc...

I first need to understand your opinion. Certainly a circle has 360 degrees. The "elementary rotations" of 45 degrees ... I don't follow ... what rotations are you referring to and how to they relate to 45 degrees? What do you mean by elementary? Please also explain your series of numbers so that I can follow your line of thought.

Oct 21, 2002 12:09 PM

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[QUOTE]*Originally posted by Rochas *

**We can all pack up and go home.**

I just went out and purchased the actual prop Blue-Box and prop Blue-Box Key on Ebay (for more than many people would outlay on an SUV), and proudly announce that they should be in my possession within 52 hours.

These artefacts will then be immediately conveyed to Switzerland where they will be subjected to destructive scientific analysis by the CERN team in Geneva who may very likely insert them into a particle accelerator or even a cyclotron in order to penetrate the multidimensional secrets they contain.

And once the hand-picked team of Nobel Laureates have plumbed the secrets of the artefacts in question, we shall have the irrefutable proof, the answer, the final and resounding conclusion of our obsessive inquiry.[/QUOTE]

SUV ... you could have said Ford, Chevy or motor home but you chose to use SUV ... hmmmm U is the 21st letter of the alphabet 2+1=3 therefore U are 3 or U are the triangle ... also SUV is a three letter acronym ... again the number 3.

Further, you could have said 48 hours or such but you went with 52 hours. Why? 5+2=7 .... coincidence ... I think not ... obviously Lynch is projecting through you.

ctyankee

(who clearly has gone too close to an unshielded cyclotron ....)

I just went out and purchased the actual prop Blue-Box and prop Blue-Box Key on Ebay (for more than many people would outlay on an SUV), and proudly announce that they should be in my possession within 52 hours.

These artefacts will then be immediately conveyed to Switzerland where they will be subjected to destructive scientific analysis by the CERN team in Geneva who may very likely insert them into a particle accelerator or even a cyclotron in order to penetrate the multidimensional secrets they contain.

And once the hand-picked team of Nobel Laureates have plumbed the secrets of the artefacts in question, we shall have the irrefutable proof, the answer, the final and resounding conclusion of our obsessive inquiry.

SUV ... you could have said Ford, Chevy or motor home but you chose to use SUV ... hmmmm U is the 21st letter of the alphabet 2+1=3 therefore U are 3 or U are the triangle ... also SUV is a three letter acronym ... again the number 3.

Further, you could have said 48 hours or such but you went with 52 hours. Why? 5+2=7 .... coincidence ... I think not ... obviously Lynch is projecting through you.

ctyankee

(who clearly has gone too close to an unshielded cyclotron ....)

Oct 21, 2002 12:21 PM

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Have you used only the addition? I was thinking about subtraction, multiplication and division.

Oct 21, 2002 1:12 PM

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Sorry, Ctyankee, I should have been clearer.

360 degrees is equivalent to a whole turn.

If you use only turns of 45 degrees, it means one 1/8 of a full turn each, that is you need to make eight times one turn of 45 degrees to make 360 degrees.

I simply observe that all the orientations of the keyhole are made by using only "elementary" turns of 45 degrees each. If I convert in hours it makes 1.5 hour or 1h 30mn for each turn of 45 degrees.

First I start from 0 degrees. (zero or 12 o'clock for you)

To pass from the first orientation of the hole to second, I need 3 times an elementary turn of 45 degrees. It makes 135 degrees.

( that is 135 degrees = 4.5 hours = 4h 30 mn for you but not 5 hours !!!)

To pass from the first to the third I need 7 times an elementary rotation of 45 degrees. It makes 335 degrees.

(and 335 degrees = 10.5 hours but not 11 hours!)

To pass from the first to the fourth, I need again 135 degres.

(again it makes 10.5 hours or 135 degrees )

To the fifth, I go back to 0 since it the same.

So it makes 0 135 335 135 0.

If you want to count in 1/8 of a full turn instead, you obtain the numbers (0 3 7 3 0). And zero is equivalent to 8, so you could write (8 3 7 3 8).

All of that to say that the numbers 5 and 11 in your series were not correct. But at least you made an important remark: these numbers correct or not are making a symmetrical series about the middle, as if there was some kind or temporal mirror symmetry between the world before the blue box and after the blue box.

Haven't you have the feeling that the second part of movie was like the first but in negative and in reverse order. Then the middle of the movie is exactly when the key hole is at 335 degrees orientation. That's the middle of the series and of the movie!

(my opinion)

360 degrees is equivalent to a whole turn.

If you use only turns of 45 degrees, it means one 1/8 of a full turn each, that is you need to make eight times one turn of 45 degrees to make 360 degrees.

I simply observe that all the orientations of the keyhole are made by using only "elementary" turns of 45 degrees each. If I convert in hours it makes 1.5 hour or 1h 30mn for each turn of 45 degrees.

First I start from 0 degrees. (zero or 12 o'clock for you)

To pass from the first orientation of the hole to second, I need 3 times an elementary turn of 45 degrees. It makes 135 degrees.

( that is 135 degrees = 4.5 hours = 4h 30 mn for you but not 5 hours !!!)

To pass from the first to the third I need 7 times an elementary rotation of 45 degrees. It makes 335 degrees.

(and 335 degrees = 10.5 hours but not 11 hours!)

To pass from the first to the fourth, I need again 135 degres.

(again it makes 10.5 hours or 135 degrees )

To the fifth, I go back to 0 since it the same.

So it makes 0 135 335 135 0.

If you want to count in 1/8 of a full turn instead, you obtain the numbers (0 3 7 3 0). And zero is equivalent to 8, so you could write (8 3 7 3 8).

All of that to say that the numbers 5 and 11 in your series were not correct. But at least you made an important remark: these numbers correct or not are making a symmetrical series about the middle, as if there was some kind or temporal mirror symmetry between the world before the blue box and after the blue box.

Haven't you have the feeling that the second part of movie was like the first but in negative and in reverse order. Then the middle of the movie is exactly when the key hole is at 335 degrees orientation. That's the middle of the series and of the movie!

(my opinion)

Oct 21, 2002 1:53 PM

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[QUOTE]*Originally posted by gandalf36 *

**Sorry, Ctyankee, I should have been clearer. **

360 degrees is equivalent to a whole turn.

If you use only turns of 45 degrees, it means one 1/8 of a full turn each, that is you need to make eight times one turn of 45 degrees to make 360 degrees.

I simply observe that all the orientations of the keyhole are made by using only "elementary" turns of 45 degrees each. If I convert in hours it makes 1.5 hour or 1h 30mn for each turn of 45 degrees.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, but why 45 degrees? If you are going to convert to hours, why aren't you using 1/12 of a full turn (12 hours on a rotary clock) rather than 1/8 of a full turn?

Is your choice of 45 degrees arbitrary or is there a significance that I'm overlooking?

360 degrees is equivalent to a whole turn.

If you use only turns of 45 degrees, it means one 1/8 of a full turn each, that is you need to make eight times one turn of 45 degrees to make 360 degrees.

I simply observe that all the orientations of the keyhole are made by using only "elementary" turns of 45 degrees each. If I convert in hours it makes 1.5 hour or 1h 30mn for each turn of 45 degrees.

Yes, but why 45 degrees? If you are going to convert to hours, why aren't you using 1/12 of a full turn (12 hours on a rotary clock) rather than 1/8 of a full turn?

Is your choice of 45 degrees arbitrary or is there a significance that I'm overlooking?

Oct 21, 2002 4:14 PM

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[QUOTE]*Originally posted by Papilù *

**Have you used only the addition? I was thinking about subtraction, multiplication and division. **[/QUOTE]

You are correct. I only tried addition but I thought about the other operations. The problem with subtraction is that most results run quickly into negative numbers. Multiplication gets the number very high, very quickly and division leads to remainders.

My guess is that mixing operations like addition and subtraction or addition and multiplication etc. would be considered (by many) to be too arbitrary ....as in trying to manufacture a solution ...

Maybe I'm wrong and it's worth a shot. I'd love to know if you find anything ..

You are correct. I only tried addition but I thought about the other operations. The problem with subtraction is that most results run quickly into negative numbers. Multiplication gets the number very high, very quickly and division leads to remainders.

My guess is that mixing operations like addition and subtraction or addition and multiplication etc. would be considered (by many) to be too arbitrary ....as in trying to manufacture a solution ...

Maybe I'm wrong and it's worth a shot. I'd love to know if you find anything ..

Oct 21, 2002 4:25 PM

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Ctyankee,

yes, when you are using complete hours it means 1/12 of a full turn and it always makes integer multiples of 30 degrees

(because 12*30=360 degrees) . But you agree you can't do 45 degrees with one integer number of hours:

45 degrees = 1 hour and 30 minutes

However between the first shot and (the second, the third, and the fourth) all rotations of the keyhole are described with an ODD number of times 45 degrees. It means you will always have to take into account half an hour somewhere. Or if you don't want to use half integers, you simply can't use hour units.

In other words, if you want to use hours to describe the hole orientation, you have to introduce half integer hours like i said

12 hours , 4.5 hours , 10.5 hours , 4.5 hours , 12 hours

Your error was coming from the fact you used one tip of the triangle to read the hours, instead of the middle of the big edge of the triangle like you did for 12 o'clock, the first orientation. So first and last numbers are correct and the three numbers in the middle are not.

But all your calculations depend strongly of the units you choose: hours instead of degrees or 1/8 of a turn or any other unit...Changing for another one would lead to completely different series and results.

Concerning your answer to Papilu, I interprete it as an begining of understanding that with mathematical operations, you can get anything and you loose any meaning. For example, you could say

17 is linked to 7 because 1*7 =7. So what?

For me, when Lynch says I want 16 because 1+6=7 and I like 7, I immediatly think he's only kidding. Because it leads nowhere.

Like "I like 16 because I like 7"!!! So what???

However, if you try to link the number 7 or 16 to some remarquable event which has to do with Diane's live, then I say ok. She puts a 16 on Adam's room, because she was in apt 16 ...

yes, when you are using complete hours it means 1/12 of a full turn and it always makes integer multiples of 30 degrees

(because 12*30=360 degrees) . But you agree you can't do 45 degrees with one integer number of hours:

45 degrees = 1 hour and 30 minutes

However between the first shot and (the second, the third, and the fourth) all rotations of the keyhole are described with an ODD number of times 45 degrees. It means you will always have to take into account half an hour somewhere. Or if you don't want to use half integers, you simply can't use hour units.

In other words, if you want to use hours to describe the hole orientation, you have to introduce half integer hours like i said

12 hours , 4.5 hours , 10.5 hours , 4.5 hours , 12 hours

Your error was coming from the fact you used one tip of the triangle to read the hours, instead of the middle of the big edge of the triangle like you did for 12 o'clock, the first orientation. So first and last numbers are correct and the three numbers in the middle are not.

But all your calculations depend strongly of the units you choose: hours instead of degrees or 1/8 of a turn or any other unit...Changing for another one would lead to completely different series and results.

Concerning your answer to Papilu, I interprete it as an begining of understanding that with mathematical operations, you can get anything and you loose any meaning. For example, you could say

17 is linked to 7 because 1*7 =7. So what?

For me, when Lynch says I want 16 because 1+6=7 and I like 7, I immediatly think he's only kidding. Because it leads nowhere.

Like "I like 16 because I like 7"!!! So what???

However, if you try to link the number 7 or 16 to some remarquable event which has to do with Diane's live, then I say ok. She puts a 16 on Adam's room, because she was in apt 16 ...

Oct 21, 2002 5:37 PM

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[QUOTE]*Originally posted by gandalf36 *

**Ctyankee, **

However between the first shot and (the second, the third, and the fourth) all rotations of the keyhole are described with an ODD number of times 45 degrees. It means you will always have to take into account half an hour somewhere. Or if you don't want to use half integers, you simply can't use hour units.

In other words, if you want to use hours to describe the hole orientation, you have to introduce half integer hours like i said

12 hours , 4.5 hours , 10.5 hours , 4.5 hours , 12 hours

Your error was coming from the fact you used one tip of the triangle to read the hours, instead of the middle of the big edge of the triangle like you did for 12 o'clock, the first orientation. So first and last numbers are correct and the three numbers in the middle are not.

[/QUOTE]

If you used a half integer ... wouldn't you just use 1/24 or 15 degrees?

Are you saying that you think my first integer is 12? Because I think it is 6. Or are you saying that it should have been 12? Why do you think that using the middle of the longest line is appropriate? I must be missing your point.

You mention that 12 is a correct beginning and end (opposite 6). Then wouldn't the next number be 5 which is opposite 11? In a circle, isn't there always a number opposite each integer?

However between the first shot and (the second, the third, and the fourth) all rotations of the keyhole are described with an ODD number of times 45 degrees. It means you will always have to take into account half an hour somewhere. Or if you don't want to use half integers, you simply can't use hour units.

In other words, if you want to use hours to describe the hole orientation, you have to introduce half integer hours like i said

12 hours , 4.5 hours , 10.5 hours , 4.5 hours , 12 hours

Your error was coming from the fact you used one tip of the triangle to read the hours, instead of the middle of the big edge of the triangle like you did for 12 o'clock, the first orientation. So first and last numbers are correct and the three numbers in the middle are not.

If you used a half integer ... wouldn't you just use 1/24 or 15 degrees?

Are you saying that you think my first integer is 12? Because I think it is 6. Or are you saying that it should have been 12? Why do you think that using the middle of the longest line is appropriate? I must be missing your point.

You mention that 12 is a correct beginning and end (opposite 6). Then wouldn't the next number be 5 which is opposite 11? In a circle, isn't there always a number opposite each integer?

Oct 21, 2002 8:17 PM

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Okay, lets try again...! You are not far.

first case) If you use hour units, it means you want to describe the rotations of the triangle with multiples of 30 degrees (because each one hour rotation is equivalent to 30 degrees). But you can't use only integer hours here because sometimes the triangle turns by multiples of 45 degrees, not 30. Then you necessarely need half integer hours to represent these rotations : (12 4.5 10.5 4.5 12) Here I'm considering a circle divided in parts of 1/12, like in a usual clock. Like you did.

second case) Instead if you use rotations of mutiples of 45 degrees then now its ok. This is no more a usual clock but

now a circle divided in parts of 1/8. You still get a series of numbers (8 3 7 3 8) each number represents the number of times you need a rotation of 45 degrees to represent the orientation of the hole.

third case) The same with smaller rotations of 15 degrees. You then three times more rotations than for rotations of 45 degrees or two times more rotations than for rotations of 30 degrees. So the numbers are two times bigger than in the first case and three times bigger than in the second case: (24 9 21 9 24) Its like considering a circle divided in parts of 1/24.

Only in the first case, you see you can't have integers in the series.

Now a last comment: you made 5 shots but the one in the middle is unnecessary. Because it is continuously linked to the fourth shot since it represents the state of the box just before and just after Rita turned the key. You can omit it, and keep the four others. Then the first number (12) is identical to the last (12 again), and the second number (4.5) is identical to third (4.5 again). This is the mirror symmetry I'm talking here:

(12 --> 4.5 --> x <-- 4.5 <-- 12)

I interpret x as the "symbolic middle" of the movie, just at the end of Betty's world and at the begining of Diane's world.

That symmetry above has nothing to do with the "opposite" symmetry in which 12 is opposite to 6 and 11 to 5 ...etc you are talking about. Forget about it because both 11 and 5 were wrong, and this is not the correct symmetry at all because of the two 12s.

Okay?

first case) If you use hour units, it means you want to describe the rotations of the triangle with multiples of 30 degrees (because each one hour rotation is equivalent to 30 degrees). But you can't use only integer hours here because sometimes the triangle turns by multiples of 45 degrees, not 30. Then you necessarely need half integer hours to represent these rotations : (12 4.5 10.5 4.5 12) Here I'm considering a circle divided in parts of 1/12, like in a usual clock. Like you did.

second case) Instead if you use rotations of mutiples of 45 degrees then now its ok. This is no more a usual clock but

now a circle divided in parts of 1/8. You still get a series of numbers (8 3 7 3 8) each number represents the number of times you need a rotation of 45 degrees to represent the orientation of the hole.

third case) The same with smaller rotations of 15 degrees. You then three times more rotations than for rotations of 45 degrees or two times more rotations than for rotations of 30 degrees. So the numbers are two times bigger than in the first case and three times bigger than in the second case: (24 9 21 9 24) Its like considering a circle divided in parts of 1/24.

Only in the first case, you see you can't have integers in the series.

Now a last comment: you made 5 shots but the one in the middle is unnecessary. Because it is continuously linked to the fourth shot since it represents the state of the box just before and just after Rita turned the key. You can omit it, and keep the four others. Then the first number (12) is identical to the last (12 again), and the second number (4.5) is identical to third (4.5 again). This is the mirror symmetry I'm talking here:

(12 --> 4.5 --> x <-- 4.5 <-- 12)

I interpret x as the "symbolic middle" of the movie, just at the end of Betty's world and at the begining of Diane's world.

That symmetry above has nothing to do with the "opposite" symmetry in which 12 is opposite to 6 and 11 to 5 ...etc you are talking about. Forget about it because both 11 and 5 were wrong, and this is not the correct symmetry at all because of the two 12s.

Okay?

Oct 21, 2002 9:06 PM

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oops i need to correct the third case just above :

third case) The same with smaller rotations of 15 degrees. You need then three times more rotations than for rotations of 45 degrees or two times more rotations than for rotations of 30 degrees. So the numbers are three times bigger than in the first case and two times bigger than in the second case: (24 9 21 9 24) Its like considering a circle divided in parts of 1/24 (like half an hour units)

third case) The same with smaller rotations of 15 degrees. You need then three times more rotations than for rotations of 45 degrees or two times more rotations than for rotations of 30 degrees. So the numbers are three times bigger than in the first case and two times bigger than in the second case: (24 9 21 9 24) Its like considering a circle divided in parts of 1/24 (like half an hour units)

Oct 21, 2002 11:39 PM

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Has anyone determined if David Lynch is a Swatch .beat wearer, resulting in the possibility that the increments are not degrees of arc, but tics of a 1000-beat international clock?

Oct 22, 2002 5:34 AM

0 0

Scary ...

I thought about making the same Swatch time observation, but took a took a different crack at observational humor.

Thoughts while shaving ...

I wonder if Lynch runs his watch deliberately slow or deliberately fast? Or does he prefer a watch that keeps really good time or one that doesn't keep good time?

I thought about making the same Swatch time observation, but took a took a different crack at observational humor.

Thoughts while shaving ...

I wonder if Lynch runs his watch deliberately slow or deliberately fast? Or does he prefer a watch that keeps really good time or one that doesn't keep good time?

Oct 22, 2002 12:36 PM

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[QUOTE]*Originally posted by ctyankee *

**You are correct. I only tried addition but I thought about the other operations. The problem with subtraction is that most results run quickly into negative numbers. Multiplication gets the number very high, very quickly and division leads to remainders. **

My guess is that mixing operations like addition and subtraction or addition and multiplication etc. would be considered (by many) to be too arbitrary ....as in trying to manufacture a solution ...

Maybe I'm wrong and it's worth a shot. I'd love to know if you find anything ..[/QUOTE]

I have to think about it yet, I haven?t tried yet because I didn?t really put my mind on these issues these days, I?m busy with other issues, I was just thinking about the possibility. I mean, division leads to remainders, it?s true, but in this way you have a principal number and secondary numbers. I only tried one time with division, and the main number I get is 8. I tried with the original sequence 6, 11, 5, 11, 6, without mirroring I mean. I get: 11: 6 = 1,8 (I keep the first decimal only) ? then 11:5 = 2,2 ? then 2,2 again, then 1,8. If I add these numbers I get 8. If I add 1+8 = 9 2+2 = 4 2+2=4 1+8=9 (9+4+4+9) I get 26, 6+2=8. The order of division is rather arbitrary, I kept 11 as higher number. About number 8 I can?t say anything, I mean, if you put it in horizontal it is the symbol of infinite, that?s all. But this is the only division I tried. I understand it could be very arbitrary. Anyway, I saw that you get the number 3 even if, with addition, you keep the original sequence 6, 11, 5, 11, 6 (you get 39 = 9+3=12, 1+2=3) or even 6, 1+1, 5, 1+1, 6 = 21 (2+1=3).

My guess is that mixing operations like addition and subtraction or addition and multiplication etc. would be considered (by many) to be too arbitrary ....as in trying to manufacture a solution ...

Maybe I'm wrong and it's worth a shot. I'd love to know if you find anything ..

I have to think about it yet, I haven?t tried yet because I didn?t really put my mind on these issues these days, I?m busy with other issues, I was just thinking about the possibility. I mean, division leads to remainders, it?s true, but in this way you have a principal number and secondary numbers. I only tried one time with division, and the main number I get is 8. I tried with the original sequence 6, 11, 5, 11, 6, without mirroring I mean. I get: 11: 6 = 1,8 (I keep the first decimal only) ? then 11:5 = 2,2 ? then 2,2 again, then 1,8. If I add these numbers I get 8. If I add 1+8 = 9 2+2 = 4 2+2=4 1+8=9 (9+4+4+9) I get 26, 6+2=8. The order of division is rather arbitrary, I kept 11 as higher number. About number 8 I can?t say anything, I mean, if you put it in horizontal it is the symbol of infinite, that?s all. But this is the only division I tried. I understand it could be very arbitrary. Anyway, I saw that you get the number 3 even if, with addition, you keep the original sequence 6, 11, 5, 11, 6 (you get 39 = 9+3=12, 1+2=3) or even 6, 1+1, 5, 1+1, 6 = 21 (2+1=3).

Oct 22, 2002 2:21 PM

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<i>*wondering if Stephen Hawking has any time to spare*</i>

Oct 22, 2002 2:25 PM

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The

firstlook comes when Betty takes it out of her purse at Club Silencio.Notice that the lock is very near one of the edges of the box. We will call that top edge North or 12 o'clock (picture the lock as a clock). Notice also that the triangular opening of the key-hole has one side that is longer than the other two (an isosceles triangle). Notice that the "point" of the angle opposite this long side is pointing South or

6 o'clock. Now when we look at other shots of the lock, we'll always refer to that same "point" much like the small hand on a clock.The

secondshot is the one when the cube is placed on Aunt Ruth's bed next to the purse. Now the "point" is pointing towards11 o'clock.The

thirdshot is the one when the cube is in Rita's hands - but before the key is inserted. Now the point is pointing towards5 o'clock.The

fourthshot is after she has made a half a full turn with the key (180 degrees). Now the point is pointing towards11 o'clock- which is correct. 5 + 6 = 11 (6 hours being half a turn).The

fifthshot is after a reaction shot by Rita (and before she opens the cube). The hand points to6 o'clock.We see Rita's face registering concern. It could be because she is apprehensive about opening the cube or it could be that she registers that the position of the lock just changed from a few seconds before (or both).

Theories? Anyone?

I've messed with the numbers a little bit .. but I've got nothing.

Perhaps the cube a time portal that is controlled by the lock? If so, who controls the lock ... certainly not Rita. Is it the dreamer or someone else? Hmmmmm.