the car accident

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Joined: Jul 2002
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I just thought of another way of viewing the car accident. If we see Rita as Diane's dream self, she is allowing herself to escape her own tragic event (the pool party) - not just allowing Camilla to escape her fate. The two scenes are identical until right after the line, 'we don't stop here.' The car accident prevents Diane from being able to ascend the hill to Adam Kesher's house. Instead she descends to the safety of the city below.
Aug 6, 2002 6:10 PM
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Probably Diane leaves the pool party in distress and runs down the hill through the brush - this event transposed onto Rita in the dream.
Jan 1, 2003 10:12 PM
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Who knows if "Rita" should have been killed in the beginning of MD. Maybe she just should have been forced up to the villa?

Remember the director saying, don't force the line like you did with the darkhaired.
Jan 2, 2003 5:35 AM
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[QUOTE]from woodlouse
the car accident
I just thought of another way of viewing the car accident. If we see Rita as Diane's dream self, she is allowing herself to escape her own tragic event (the pool party) - not just allowing Camilla to escape her fate. The two scenes are identical until right after the line, 'we don't stop here.' The car accident prevents Diane from being able to ascend the hill to Adam Kesher's house. Instead she descends to the safety of the city below.
[/QUOTE]


I'd like to add that Diane now has amnesia and doesn't know who she is or where to go. She is a blank canvas that allows her subconsious to paint a dream that not only reflects the turmoil of Diane's real life, but also helps give her information to assist in her understanding the situation.

We can place ourselves into the Rita character and have the entire dream unfold before us. And yet in doing this, we haven't given up our deeper connection to Diane.



Quick Question :

Which foreign version (Australian, Korean etc.) of MD on DVD is the best. Are there any compatability issues with DVD players in USA.
I understand one of them has an interview with DL.
Jan 2, 2003 8:17 AM
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Korean Dvd is region 0 and plays on my year old + Panasonic machine in USA.
It contains interviews with Lynch, Theroux, Watts and Harring - not very substantial but interesting. Half hour total of extras.
Jan 2, 2003 10:34 AM
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Quote:
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"I'd like to add that Diane now has amnesia and doesn't know who she is or where to go. She is a blank canvas that allows her subconsious to paint a dream that not only reflects the turmoil of Diane's real life, but also helps give her information to assist in her understanding the situation."
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In her dream Diane is trying to achieve amnesia, but in the end she fails, because the higher part of her subconscious wants her to face the truth.
In her waking life she remembers only too well; she appears to be able to function in a perfunctory way - ie. the conversation with her neighbor.

PS. Doesn't anybody else think Diane left the party by going down the hill on foot? It wasn't my idea, but when I heard it, I thought it had a perfect logic.
Jan 2, 2003 11:10 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by simon-piman
Quote:
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"I'd like to add that Diane now has amnesia and doesn't know who she is or where to go. She is a blank canvas that allows her subconsious to paint a dream that not only reflects the turmoil of Diane's real life, but also helps give her information to assist in her understanding the situation."
-------------------------------------------------------------------

In her dream Diane is trying to achieve amnesia, but in the end she fails, because the higher part of her subconscious wants her to face the truth.
In her waking life she remembers only too well; she appears to be able to function in a perfunctory way - ie. the conversation with her neighbor.

PS. Doesn't anybody else think Diane left the party by going down the hill on foot? It wasn't my idea, but when I heard it, I thought it had a perfect logic.
[/QUOTE]

Diane's "amnesia" is very selective, actually this is more censorship of the superconscious than actual "amnesia". those dreams happen all the time, even to "sane" people, and not necessarily for crime issues. the dream is that: concealing of repressed issues under cover of strange outlook in confusing situations.

the way she talks to her neighbor disturbs me a lot: are we supposed to believe this girl had her love killed around 3 weeks ago (!) and wakes up with just a grumpy mood and OPENS the door to the neighbor without any caution, and let her come in, snoop around and take stuff?
this girl takes the decision to kill "her" Camilla, because of a dinner party humiliation??? but still we are led to believe she is a nice girl (in her dream) manipulated by a bad Camilla?
Come on, Camilla has the right to love someone else, and even couch cast with the director if she see fit to her carreer (this is her business), it doesnt make Camilla such a bad girl she should die!
Diane HAS serious psychological problems (and child abuse is not an excuse for murder in this case, unless Camilla abused her)

yes i think that the downhill runaway of Camilla may be connected to what Diane did after the party, or wished to be able to do (like running away in her mind all throughout the dinner, wishing she was somewhere else, wishing the car had been stoped before she got to the villa, wishing she was dead, or amnesiac)

i think that DL plays with the clues all along (giving ambiguous kays, with double meaning that could go either way all the time), and the "Camilla! you came back" should not be heard as "you came back from the dead, but your came back to me after the break up.

the corpse is Diane's, and Betty shows Rita that Diane loves Camilla so much her pain will lead her to suicide, and this warning brings Rita back in her bed (the love scene between Betty and Rita in diane's dream)

i think Diane is a deceited lover who got her mind twisted upside down because of serious mental trouble (child abuse, split personality, maybe orphan: her parents are never mentioned, and the eldery couple at the airport looks strangely familiar yet not as close as parents) and her breakdown emphasised by the slash of this breakup leads her to choose suicide rather than live a life without Camilla.
Jan 2, 2003 12:01 PM
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Nothing justifies murder, but try explaining that particular point to a homicidal, paranoid schizophrenic with advanced delusions that you are their lover, when perhaps you are not, and never have been.
Jan 2, 2003 9:47 PM
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[QUOTE]

from simon-piman

Nothing justifies murder, but try explaining that particular point to a homicidal, paranoid schizophrenic with advanced delusions that you are their lover, when perhaps you are not, and never have been.[/QUOTE]


.....never have been.

What if insanity IS the driving force of Diane's obsession and not true love? What is the strongest evidence from the film that showed they actually had a relationship?

Her POV is just too unstable to decide what she's fabricating and what is real.
Jan 3, 2003 7:27 AM
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Personally I believe it is all Diane's delusions. I made a couple of posts in 'The Wedding Band' thread deconstructing the scenes where we are led to believe from Diane's POV that they were lovers.
On close examination I think Lynch has been deliberately ambiguous. He was trying to fool us into thinking - along with Diane - that Camilla was a bad person, when she is not.
More and more I think this film is about Maya - the Eastern mystical idea that we are living in a world where everything is a shifting quicksand of unreliable perceptions.
Jan 3, 2003 8:21 AM
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Simon,

You mentioned earlier "Region 0"

What does that mean?
Jan 3, 2003 1:20 PM
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As I understand it Region 0 means it should play on any DVD player. It is not restricted to the players of any one region.
It should say in your manual what kind of DVD format your player is capable of playing.
Simon
Jan 3, 2003 10:26 PM
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ID-eaWho knows if "Rita" should have been killed in the beginning of MD. Maybe she just should have been forced up to the villa?

Remember the director saying, don't force the line like you did with the darkhaired.
In 8 1/2's famous harem dream sequence the tear-shaped pearl earring belongs to the woman that is about to be sent "upstairs" because she is over the age limit.

By the way, isn't it curious how fast Rita's ear heals?
Jul 31, 2007 6:23 PM
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"Personally I believe it is all Diane's delusions. I made a couple of posts in 'The Wedding Band' thread deconstructing the scenes where we are led to believe from Diane's POV that they were lovers.
On close examination I think Lynch has been deliberately ambiguous. He was trying to fool us into thinking - along with Diane - that Camilla was a bad person, when she is not.
More and more I think this film is about Maya - the Eastern mystical idea that we are living in a world where everything is a shifting quicksand of unreliable perceptions."


"Nothing justifies murder, but try explaining that particular point to a homicidal, paranoid schizophrenic with advanced delusions that you are their lover, when perhaps you are not, and never have been."

Fair points. This is one of the more difficult issues for people trying to explain MD to get around. The problem is the events that are revealed by the flashbacks don't satisfactorily explain Diane's killing Camilla. So we are forced to examine those events more closely. Unlike Simon I would not go so far as to say Diane was entirely delusional. I think it makes more sense for Diane to be partially delusional. I think she had a relationship with Camilla but not to the degree she thought. Personally, it makes more of an impact if Diane was not stark raving mad or psychotic...merely someone driven over the edge by a genuine tragic flaw. In any case, a true psychopath would not experience the regret and guilt Diane did.

Undoubtedly those flashback "reality scenes" are entirely from Diane's POV and that point of view is about as objective as a near suicidal, mournful, obsessed, jealous lover's could be. I take them with a huge pinch of salt. The Camilla Blonde Camilla kiss; the knowing looks of blame shot by Adam to Camilla then from Camilla to Diane when Coco complains of having to wait for dinner; the laughter of Adam and Camilla over their announcement; even the announcement itself leading up to but lacking the final crucial word "marriage". All of these things seem to me to be obvious exaggerations, deliberately placed to cue us to the fact that this is Diane's way of remembering the events in the best light possible to justify what she did, create sympathy for herself and perhaps thereby avert the suicide that is about to happen. Those events probably happened in a much more benign way, but it is clear that Diane either did not percieve them that way at the time or she wanted to recall them in a particularly negative way, or both.

Frankly I don't think we know enough about Camilla to say definitely whether she was bad or not or to discern the exact nature of her relationship with Diane. It seems that there certainly was a relationship but common sense tell me that Camilla was most likely trying to help a friend 'get ahead' in Hollywood the only way she knew how.
Aug 2, 2007 8:24 AM
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