one scene that SHOULD have revealed the 'dream reality' to people.....

Original Poster
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 758
.
Jun 16, 2002 7:40 AM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 233
Another TAXI scene that is amiss. Where betty first gets off at the airport and the cabbie already has her bags and is saying "Where to Miss?"

I wish all my cabbies were that nice and generous!?!?

The cabs and cabbies are all too convenient in this movie. Perhaps this is a DL throw back to the 40/50s when cabs and cabbies were that good.


Neely,
not to knock ya, but perhaps she already paid him just before she exits the cab.

Notice we only see yellow cabs during the day (sunshine) while at night we get the mysterious black and grey cab (night)
Jun 17, 2002 10:23 AM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 758
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Detective McKnight
Neely,
not to knock ya, but perhaps she already paid him just before she exits the cab.
[/QUOTE]
Oh I know.......i was being facetious seeing the scene that way just makes me giggle ~ I can just see a new, MD-inspired, recurring skit on SNL or something: <B>"Betty's REAL adventures in LA"</B>. Gone are the chivalrous cabbies and comapassionate senior citizens......potential scenes: 'Betty and the carjacker', 'the crack whore that changed Betty's life' or 'Betty actually <i>buys</i> swampland from a travelling salesman'.....




Neely
Jun 17, 2002 11:24 AM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 102
Your thread reminded of something ("I remember something! I remember something!"). Just before you posted, I sent in threads on The Fountain (in the courtyard) and Eerie, Dreamy Music (that plays during the limo rides on Mullholland Drive). When she gets out of the cab, that same music is playing and there is a fountain in the background! Zoinks! Like, let's get outta here, Scoob!

---------------------------------------------

Just a simple guy
And I live from day to day.
A ray of sunshine melts my frown
And blows my blues away.
There's nothing more that I can say
But on a day like today
I'll pass the time away
And walk a quiet mile with you.

"Out On The Tiles" (Led Zeppelin)
Jun 19, 2002 11:56 PM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 758
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PBRstreetgang
Your thread reminded of something ("I remember something! I remember something!"). Just before you posted, I sent in threads on The Fountain (in the courtyard) and Eerie, Dreamy Music (that plays during the limo rides on Mullholland Drive). When she gets out of the cab, that same music is playing and there is a fountain in the background! Zoinks! Like, let's get outta here, Scoob![/QUOTE]
Aaaaaaaiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Jun 20, 2002 12:13 AM
0 0
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 22
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Neely O'Hara
It's the scene where Betty pulls up for her big audition at the studio.......

she pulls up in the cab, stars in her eyes and that "gosh-gee-golly" look on her face......she gets out, steels herself, and struts on with that winsome 'wholesome determination'.......


what part of this reveals the 'unreality' of the scene?

the fact that she apparently STIFFS an LA cabbie and walks away <B>without consequence!</B>

if this were a 'real' scene,
methinks it would have ended a little differently.

hehe

[/QUOTE]

Come to think of it, all those cabs are a bit convenient. Think of it, the one at LAX, the one to the studio (unpaid) the one that myseteriously turns up in front of 1612 Havenhurst at 2 am going to Club Silencio (I'm not sure but I think that was unpaid too) and one presumably getting Betty and Rita back home after the blue box appears.

Just TRY getting cabs that easily. Yeah, I know, could've been hailed by phone in the Silencio case, but I seem to remember Rita thumbing it down - hardly necessary if it were called in.

*sigh* I guess I'm just too much of a rational thinker....
Jun 20, 2002 8:06 AM
0 0
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 32
so err.. the cab drivers aren't really that nice in reality? :confused:

.. too bad :p
Jun 20, 2002 8:53 AM
0 0
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 54
I feel like most observations are a little too easy to say in retrospect, but in a movie that incorporates so many motifs, you really have to have an understanding of the whole movie before you can make assumptions about what a scene has to imply. Obviously the movie is wierd from near the very beginning, but there are a lot of movies that are wierd in similar ways and incorporate fantastical realism while still existing in reality. So I think the cabbie scenes didn't necessitate the dream.

-- Vanila Sky Spoilers in this paragraph --
It's also not always possible to tell what is reality being observed in a movie and what is just style. For example in Vanilla Sky the movie starts out with a Penelope Cruz doing a voice-over saying "Abierto los ojos". On the RT forums people said that HAS to be an obvious sign that the dream of Vanilla Sky begins before the movie starts since Tom Cruise hadn't met Penelope Cruz yet. But in an interview, Cameron Crowe said that voiceover was in there just to pay homage to the original version of the movie.
---

So in longwinded conclusion, as much as I try to go into some movies and find certain keys (like Betty getting away with not paying the cabbies) that must necessitate the upcoming twists or surprise endings, I think highly styled movies can be interpretted in too many ways for viewers to be confident about their intrepretations and premonitions until they've finished watching the movie.
Jun 21, 2002 12:28 PM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 102
Another scene that should have removed any doubt that the first part of the movie is a dream:

(FWIW, POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING)

The first love scene. When does a woman in her early thirties ever say to someone she had only met the previous day that she is in love with them just BEFORE they are about do it for the first time? Maybe after or during the sex, but before? Fuhgeddaboudit.
Jul 28, 2002 5:32 PM
0 0
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 102
There's a list of Ten Things we'd never know without the movies that was circulating on-line a couple of years ago. For the sack of this thread I am only going to type out the second rule:

2. When paying for a taxi, don't look at your wallet as you take out a bill -- just grab one at random and hand it over, it will be the exact fare.

All ten things are the same, dealing with what the camera does and most importantly are about speed.

From here I'll let William Goldman take over from his book Which Lie Did I Tell, starting with his examples on how the scene should be written and the way that is being proposed.

FADE IN ON

Wall Street. High noon. MEL GIBSON sits in a taxi as it pulls up in front of City Hall. He pulls out a bill hands it over, and as he starts to get out--

CUT TO

MEL, hurrying up the steps to that ornate building.

The scene takes no time. Mel is on his way inside to where the real scene is about to begin. In other words [...] this is not about Mel Gibson getting out of a cab. But lets try it again.

FADE IN ON

Wall Street. High noon. MEL GIBSON sits in a taxi as it pulls up in front of City Hall. He pulls out a bill hands it over, and as he starts to get out--

CAB DRIVER
This is a single.

MEL
What?

CAB DRIVER
You gave me a single--I brought you in from JFK, it's thirty-two bucks, plus tolls.

MEL
Sorry.
(He doesn't look at his wallet this time either, just hands over another bill)

CAB DRIVER
This is another single. That's two.

MEL
Must be jet lag.
(Hands over another bill, still without looking at his wallet)

CAB DRIVER
Three singles don't cut it, Mister.
(beat)
Why don't you ever look at your wallet?

MEL
Look, I'm in a hurry--

CAB DRIVER
--does this scam work where you come from, you Australian a**hole?--
(calling out)
Officer?

CUT TO

ONE OF NEW YORK'S FINEST, moving to the DRIVER.

POLICEMAN
Problem?

CAB DRIVER
This guy owes me from JFK and all he does is hand over three singles--
(big)
-and he never looks at his wallet.

POLICEMAN
Don't get you.

CAB DRIVER
Watch.
(to MEL in the back)
I'd like my money, mister.

MEL
Here, take it.
(he hands over another bill without looking at his wallet)

POLICEMAN
Damndest thing I ever saw. What'd he give you?

CAB DRIVER
Progress--a five.

POLICEMAN
(to MEL)
Mister? You owe the man. Now, why don't you just look in your wallet, take out the money, and hand it over.

CUT TO

MEL sitting there, the wallet in his hands. He tries to raise it up to eye level so he can see it. His arms won't move. He tries to drop his head to chin level so he can see it down there. His head won't move.

MEL
(soft)
I don't...seem to be...able to do...that.

POLICEMAN
This is not funny--you don't pay the man, you go to jail. You want to go to jail.

[...] All the ten cliches in the list are about trying to save time. Because the alternatives are too gruesome for the moviegoer: sitting there with nothing happening that relates to the story.
Get on with it--that is what the camera demands, and when we write movies, we have no choice but to obey (pg. 206-209).
Jul 28, 2002 7:37 PM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 758
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PBRstreetgang
When does a woman in her early thirties ever say to someone she had only met the previous day that she is in love with them just BEFORE they are about do it for the first time? Maybe after or during the sex, but before? Fuhgeddaboudit. [/QUOTE]
*enigmatic smile*


It can happen





Neely
Jul 28, 2002 8:13 PM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 412
It's been a while since I have seen MD (still waiting for a better DVD ;))

But, that scene where Betty says something along the lines of "In this dream place." I think if you're at all intuitive, you can read a little further into that.
Jul 29, 2002 3:31 AM
0 0
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13
There seem to be a lot of taxis in the movie, and LA is certainly not like NY where most people take cabs. Anyone else notice this?

BTW, the scene where we see someone getting into bed after the jitterbug scene is what gives the dream possibility away for me.
Jul 29, 2002 11:37 AM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 758
You know, when I started this thread, I wasn't <i>really</i> thinking about things that 'gave it away'......

I was just thinking how funny the taxi scene before Betty's audition would have been if, instead of her strutting away with that determined look, the cabbie got out and roughed her up a bit

hehe




Neely
Jul 29, 2002 7:38 PM
0 0
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 102
William Goldman style:

As the scene appears in the script...

EXT. 1612 HAVENHURST

The cab driver puts Betty's bags down on the sidewalk next to her. She can barely stop looking at the building long enough to pay the cab driver who then goes off and drives away. Betty picks up her bags and enters, as if in a dream, through an ornate iron gate to a courtyard with a beautiful working fountain at its center.

Straight and to the point and is it states in the script she does pay him.

Here's the altered version as is being proposed...

EXT. 1612 HAVENHURST

The cab driver puts Betty's bags down on the sidewalk next to her. She can not stop looking at the building, as the cab driver waits for his payment. Betty picks up her bags and as she is about to enter...

CAB DRIVER
Hey Lady.

She can barely stop looking at the building long enough to look at him.

BETTY
Yes.

CAB DRIVER
You owe for the cab ride.

BETTY
I'm sorry.

She returns to her dreamy revere.

CAB DRIVER
LADY!

She looks at him as quick as before.

BETTY
Yes.

CAB DRIVER
You need to pay me.

BETTY
Sorry.

And she returns to her awe.

CAB DRIVER
Does this work where your from?

BETTY
I'm sorry, I'm just so excited to be here..I mean I just came here from Deep River, Ontario and now I'm in this dream place. You can imagine how I feel.

Betty enters 1612 Havenhurst, as if in a dream, through an ornate iron gate to a courtyard with a beautiful working fountain at its center.

CAB DRIVER (O.S.)
Lady, you still owe me for the fare.

The cab driver walks over to the trunk of the cab, opening it up. He reaches inside producing a

TIRE IRON.

He brandishes it in both hands, walking through the iron gate to the courtyard, over to Betty.

(to be continued?)
Jul 29, 2002 8:30 PM
0 0
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 60
Don't know if this has been posted before, but another thing that should give a clue that it's a dream is Rita's wardrobe. I doubt it came from aun't ruth's closet.

Also when Rita stumbles out of the limo her purse is hanging from her shoulder. How convient that she remembers(whether conciously or unconciously) to grab it before getting out of the car
Jul 31, 2002 5:26 AM
0 0
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8
I don't have the movie with me so I can't check, but I seem to remember a flash of Betty handing something [cash?] to the cabbie as the car pulls up to the studio or just before she gets out. Maybe it was as she's getting out after her ride form the airport an I'm just confused [not all that unusual].
Jul 31, 2002 8:29 AM
0 0
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 102
Since tommers mentioned Vanilla Sky (POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING), the one scene in that movie that should have revealed the dream was when Cruise got arrested and had his mug shot taken. According to the height markings on the wall behind him, Cruise was about 6 feet tall. 6 feet? Tom Cruise? Sure,.... IN HIS DREAMS!
Aug 1, 2002 6:33 PM
0 0
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 51
I don't think that you can compare Vanilla Sky to MD. Vanilla Sky to me was the opposite of MD. I think that for the most part, I could not sympathize or relate to Tom Cruise's idealized yuppie / "cool" rich guy character. I think that Cameron Crowe, because he has been immersed in star culture for so long, simply could not make a "dream" movie that strikes a chord with the common person on the street. I think that Lynch is far better at creating sympathetic characters that you can relate to on many levels.

At the end of Vanilla Sky, I just did not care whether or not Tom Cruise died when he jumped off the roof or not, I was simply not intrigued enough to try to seek any deeper meaning. But at the end of MD when Diane shoots herself it is a deeply disturbing moment that left me completely devastated by what I had witnessed.
Aug 2, 2002 8:56 AM
0 0
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 414
[QUOTE]Originally posted by QA-Tomato
I don't think that you can compare Vanilla Sky to MD. Vanilla Sky to me was the opposite of MD. I think that for the most part, I could not sympathize or relate to Tom Cruise's idealized yuppie / "cool" rich guy character. I think that Cameron Crowe, because he has been immersed in star culture for so long, simply could not make a "dream" movie that strikes a chord with the common person on the street. I think that Lynch is far better at creating sympathetic characters that you can relate to on many levels.

At the end of Vanilla Sky, I just did not care whether or not Tom Cruise died when he jumped off the roof or not, I was simply not intrigued enough to try to seek any deeper meaning. But at the end of MD when Diane shoots herself it is a deeply disturbing moment that left me completely devastated by what I had witnessed.
[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. I liked the idea and concept of the movie, but overall it was too shallow to leave any lasting impact. I mean, get real. How many free-wheeling orphan millionaire overly-smiley publishers do YOU know? That's like .00001 percent of the NYC population, if that. And I find it hard to believe that some Spanish immigrant who is a corps de ballet dancer lives in a fairly roomy warehouse loft somewhere in Manhattan, without roommates. More likely is that that she shares an apartment little bigger than a closet with a bunch of other dancers. Unless of course, rich mommy and daddy are footing the bill. And again, that's only a small percentage of the population.

In MD on the other hand, I felt a sense of loss when Diane disappeared right before Rita was going to open the box after they came back from Silencio. And the suicide just left me so sad.
Aug 2, 2002 2:30 PM
0 0